Church calls Alcoholics Anonymous a "cult" and bans it from its premises for sexual misconduct

Well, after reading the article, there does seem to be some merit in evicting that particular AA cell from the churches. If there is an umbrella group that charters these individual groups, it should definitely look into this chapter.

Misleading title! I am one of the AA members involved in outing this rogue group by the way! Midtown has been a thorn in our side for some time. Many of us have tried throughout the years to direct newcomers away from their meetings, but this is not effective since they often recruit though meetings inside detoxes and rehab institutions, before the people even attend a single real AA meeting.

One ex-member described them as "a shiny apple with a rotten core." Many newcomers are attracted to the group because everyone seems friendly and good looking. Their dependence on the group is then established through "love bombing", a cult tactic. Many will then overlook or excuse the terrible things that go on there. Those that do question the leadership are expelled from the group and essentially demonized so that their dissention does not spread.

In other words, this is absolutely not AA! I know some people don't like AA or think it's a cult, but this is an entirely different animal.

Read more about the Midtown Group and our efforts to expose them here:

that would be www dot thetruthaboutmidtown dot com

This cop-out of saying that an AA group which behaves unnacceptably is "not real AA" just won't do. What is wrong with this group is what is wrong with Alcoholics Anonymous per se. It claims to help people who suffer from alcoholism, which it defines as a "disease", but without offering any properly informed medical understanding of this problem. Instead of offering support and help with coping with a medical problem, AA seeks to recruit people with drink problems into a cult religion belief system based on the ideas of the otherwise largely forgotten and discredited evangelist Frank ND Buchman, who was once notorious for voicing support for Fascism and advocating a policy of appeasement before World War II.

The fact that there are no checks and balances in place in AA to prevent unqualified and unaccountable individuals having power and influence over the lives of vulnerable people creates an obvious and alarming potential for predatory behaviour to thrive behind the cloak of anonymity. This happens more often than is ever publicly admitted by AA. The particular group under discussion may just be a more blatant and organised example of such abuses, which are quite common within AA.

It's possible that I may be misinformed about what really goes on in AA, but I don't think so. AA itself did not and does not define alcoholism as a disease, nor does it make any diagnoses. The AMA, however, does, officially since 1966. As to Frank Buchman, I don't know who he is so I can't comment on that. While the early individual members of AA actively recruited in the late 30's and early 40's, this has not been AA's practice in many decades. I also can't speak as to how common midtown's abusive practices are since I don't know anybody who has experienced this aside from this individual group. It's entirely possible that it's going on somewhere else and I'm just unaware of it. IMO criticising all of AA based upon one group is about as valid as criticising the entire US based upon actions in "New York" or "St. Louis".

My criticisms of AA are not based on the activities of one group. They are based on a thorough study of the central text which AA uses, namely Alcoholics Anonymous, otherwise known as the "Big Book" and other AA books such as "The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions", "AA Comes of Age", "Pass it On", "As Bill Sees It" and others. They are also based on attending literally thousands of AA meetings over a period of more than seventeen years and meeting and getting to know a huge mumber of people in AA as well as reading as much material as I could find about the origins of AA within the Oxford Group movement and studying contemporary accounts of Oxford Group beliefs and practices from the 1930s.
As for Frank ND Buchman, he was the founder of the "Oxford Group", a misleadingly named religious movement which Oxford University had to make clear was never endorsed by them in any way. The co-founders of AA, William Wilson and Dr Robert Smith were members of Buchman's movement, which included many alcoholics. When they broke away from the Oxford Group, they retained an adherence to all of the central tenets of Buchmanism, as William Wilson made clear in "AA Comes of Age".
The AA "program" simply cannot be understood without reference to the ideas of Buchman, which inluded the notion that people were "spiritually diseased" and "defeated by sin", over which Buchman taught people were powerless. He advocated public confession and claimed that he and his followers were divinely guided. He was much criticised by mainstream Christians, incuding theBishop of Durham, for preaching heretical ideas. It was the beginning of the end for his movement when he achieved worldwide nototriety by publicly praising Adolf Hitler in an interview in the New York World Telegram. He also stated that a God-inspired dictatorship (whatever that might be) would be a good thing.

Pot, meet kettle.

Learning to use A.A. as a whole

Some people love the vicarious atmosphere of a sponsorship and sponsors loves the thought of being responsible for someone else. The need to control and enjoy is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker that's why sponsorship is always being promoted as A.A. was and is wise enough not to even mentioned the word in the Big Book, Steps or Traditions. The Pacifica group and Big Book group in LA are heavy into sponsorship and control
If ones denial cannot see the obvious, ask a newcomer already here in A.A.. If one is new - sponsorship can be hard to swallow at first but as people promoting it, one gets use to it or else. Sounds a little like ones first drink

They will claim "People are different, and you need to find a person who fits your needs"
A.A. states that God could and would if sought.
It ceases to amaze me that people feel they can fit another needs!
It is better to Come then Come to and hopefully one may come to believe in the message from the Big Book – Burn it into the conscious that one needs to clean house and trust in God than to follow the profit of a sponsor. Sponsorship is the downfall of A.A. which is taking it from the inside out. Make the so called sponsors live up to their title and charge them not the new comes that just want to live on.

As a longtime AA member, I can tell you that AA is a support group which has no counselors, no treatment program, no recovery centers, either inpatient or outpatient, does not make any diagnoses, does not tell anyone what to believe, either as far as alcoholism is concerned or as far as religion or God is concerned.

Doctors who go to AA meetings can tell you their medical opinion but this is not any position of AA. Any member of AA, or any other person in a free society, is allowed to tell you their opinion. This is not an opinion of AA. If you are not comfortable with an AA meeting or group, and you don't want to go but are required to go, find some other group or meeting. Meetings are as different as people. Good luck.

As a longtime AA member, I can tell you that AA is a support group which has no counselors, no treatment program, no recovery centers, either inpatient or outpatient, does not make any diagnoses, does not tell anyone what to believe, either as far as alcoholism is concerned or as far as religion or God is concerned.

Doctors who go to AA meetings can tell you their medical opinion but this is not any position of AA. Any member of AA, or any other person in a free society, is allowed to tell you their opinion. This is not an opinion of AA. If you are not comfortable with an AA meeting or group, and you don't want to go but are required to go, find some other group or meeting. Meetings are as different as people. Good luck.

As a longtime AA member, I can tell you that AA is a support group which has no counselors, no treatment program, no recovery centers, either inpatient or outpatient, does not make any diagnoses, does not tell anyone what to believe, either as far as alcoholism is concerned or as far as religion or God is concerned.

Doctors who go to AA meetings can tell you their medical opinion but this is not any position of AA. Any member of AA, or any other person in a free society, is allowed to tell you their opinion. This is not an opinion of AA. If you are not comfortable with an AA meeting or group, and you don't want to go but are required to go, find some other group or meeting. Meetings are as different as people. Good luck.

(Sorry, I kept getting the response that my comment was not posted so I reposted twice.)

I have attended AA for over 7 years now and have remained completely sober. The longer I am sober the more I see things that I do not agree with. For example, a friend of mine went out and drank the other day because there was 13 stepping and sex going on in the group as well as people with each other who are married to someone else. One of them has over 12 years sober. I believe those who are doing well at the time have a responsibility to say something about this behavior. Although AA is a spiritual program and we should be tolerant of others we should also realize that the newcomer as well as ourselves are in the room to get sober on a daily basis and if this behavior continues in the room and continues to harm others it does effect the group in a negative way. I did say something in the meeting the other day. I am not the most popular person, but I cannot worry about that. I have to continue to do what is right and what I believe God wants me to do. Time in the program doesn't matter. I want a group to go to that is growing not getting sicker.