At least six people injured by gunfire in church

The Lord works in mysterious ways His wonders to perform.

If this is your Lord's ways, I don't want anything to do with him/her.

There is no safe place. We'll soon be pointing guns at each other when we greet each other.

Will everyone please calm down! This was an isolated incident. It has nothing to do with God's wrath, it had nothing to do with race or political affiliation, it could have happened in a grocery store or in a mall. I'm a raving liberal and I know that gun control will not stop some low-life from killing people if he is determined to do so. We should celebrate the heroic act of the gentleman who sacrificed his own life to save others. We should take a moment to reflect on the pain and suffering of those involved. And we should be proud to live in a land where there are still heroes who will stand up and take a bullet for others.

OK, OK, but it is so horrible.

Yes, it is horrible, but what have you read here that makes it any less so? As long as we spend our time arguing and hating one another because of our political views, our religious views and our races. We are perpetuating this type of behaviour. Why not say, a bad person killed some good people, let us all join together and mourn the dead, celebrate the heroes and let the courts deal with the bad guy. Fighting among ourselves is not helping anything. Blaming the victims for their beliefs does not make this less likely to happen to any of us. Nothing we can do will keep bad things from happening. Bad things have always happened, and they will always happen. We have to learn to live together, to care about one another and to accept that there is both bad and good in this world and to move forward without fear and hatred.

I think its a real shame that a large majority of the narrow minded intolerant pinheads are Christo-facist conserva-nazis and not evil evil liberals. I wish it was left wingers who own most of the legal guns in America and not the war mongering gun happy right.I really wish I could take a position of moral self righteousness as I root for some leftist nut shooting up a bunch of right wing evangelical types.

Baphomet93---

Where do you fit in the nut case cocktail you just described for us?

Here's what this world is coming to. Another mentally unbalanced individual harbors a grudge against whatever and has easy access to guns that's what this all about, and I guess you gun lovers will argue that we should have armed guards in churches now right? How many more massacres will it take for the gun lobby and their acolytes to get it?

"If this is your Lord's ways, I don't want anything to do with him/her."

Yeah, yeah. How long have you been waiting to use THAT line?

That's it? You can't even get past your political views to wish the victims well? Blackie, you have zero class.

blackie you're a f***kin sicko

Most blackies are...total sickos.

I want to know where Obama was !

Obama is the self proclaimed second coming and could have stopped this with a wave of his hand !

HOW DARE OBAMA go on vacation and let something like this happen !!!!

Back off, BLACKIE. God told me He owns three S&W 357s, four Glocks, two Czech broomhandles and two Charles Daly Black Diamond O/Us (12 gauge) and six sad-dee nite specials. He ain't a gun nut to trifle with.

Get that Joe-Joe a white sheet, wrap him in it, and throw him in the river, like the lynchers used to do to blacks. What a waste of space. Just ignore him while you are on this post. It'll drive him to jump off a tall building when he can't get the attention he craves.

Joe-Joe-305925Most blackies are...total sickos. I want to know where Obama was !

Obama is the self proclaimed second coming and could have stopped this with a wave of his hand !

HOW DARE OBAMA go on vacation

Joe-Joe, you are such a racists pig, even at the loss of death of unfortunate persons you have to twist race into it, even though no Black was even involved.

Too bad you were not able to take those bullets for the ones who lost their lives or wounded. This country, Blacks and Whites, would be better off without you.

People who totally missed the mark today:

blackie you're a f***kin sicko

I want to know where Obama was !

lol I get the subtlties in what you were trying to say, blackie but you have to keep in mind that most of these people don't.

You have no clue as to how things work on the street. To think that stricter gun laws would help solve the problem just shows how out of touch you really are with how things really work.

Haven't you ever heard of the Black Market?

don't think this is random i think it someone that knew someone there and wanted it to happen

it is not about stricter gun control anyone can get a gun illegally it is now a murderous world for revenge

Gun control only hurts the honest gun buyer , gun control doesn't do one thing to stop criminals from getting guns , control only stops you the honest citizen from defending yourself against crime.

First, ALAN, the TOBACCO control laws. 400,000 people in the U.S. die each YEAR from tobacco related illnesses. What was the last year 400,000 were murdered with guns?????

post# 5.4 Joe-Joe
It is the TRUTH! Gun control hurts the common, decent citizens. There should be certain control, such as enforced background check, but if ordinary citizens could not have guns, there would be such increase of crime everywhere, because those cowards who go and attempt roberies and break in peoples home, if they think you may have a gun, and know how to use it , they don't get that brave! I don't mind letting them know , I know how to use mine. Its a terrible world we live in, it would be better if we didn't have to have guns, but it's 'Wild West' out there, and it looks like is getting more wilder! So, gun owners, let them know not to mess with you!!!

Perhaps if someone had a concealed gun in the parish, he would have been dropped sooner. There are too many guns, and too many people who don't come unhinged for anyone to notice, or at least rise to a level of government interference, and until it is too late. Nuts have access to guns, it's not going to go away, protect yourself as vigorously as you choose to. Put another way, in the immediacy of the real world, all the police can end up doing is putting up crime scene tape and outline the bodies. To think Mother protects you is naive. Perhaps echoing Blackie's strange post, there is some organic parallels here, for those wanting draconian gun laws, God didn't protect these people, and neither did the State. Taking away a person's right to protect themselves is certainly NOT the lesson to be taken from all this. Punish the person who attacked free and peaceful people simply for their beliefs. Don't take away a wholly disinterested person's right to protect themselves.

I have alot in common with the shooters outlook at liberals. These left wing liberals and the ACLU are ruining our country. On the other hand I surely wouldn't take the radical steps he did. This guy has a mental problem that goes way beyong just hating liberals and the criminal loving ACLU. The comment by Baphomet93 just showed his ignorance and how intolerant he is of the so-right wingers which really tells me he's not all that different from the shooter with his outlook at the right. Liberals and groups like the ACLU are losers but it's a shame this man killed innocent people to try and make his point. For God's sake don't blame it on guns,they didn't do anything by themselves.

Stricter gun laws will only apply to those who actually abide by the laws... and those people wouldn't be killing folks in the first place.

What we need is truth in sentencing laws.... You get life, you go for life.

Knock it off with the "criminal loving" crap. The ACLU has even stepped in on behalf of Nazis to march or demonstrate peaceably. Very few Nazis would describe themselves as "liberal." So, you don't like the ACLU - fine. But labels like "criminal loving" are not only inaccurate, they show a level of ignorance. If I believe that even criminals are allowed the full protection of the law, that doesn't mean that I "love" them.

Guess what, boys and girls !....When Rush Limbaugh was arrested for drug possession and drug "dealing", guess who defended him? The ACLU. That's who. Many people have no idea what they're ranting about and blame the ACLU for the actions of every "nut-case".

As for Terry Fisher, it's people like you whom we have to FEAR. God wants murderers to roam our streets enacting their own vigilante justice wherever they see fit? Our democracy is in dire straits.

Really? Gun controls don't stop baddies from getting guns, just the law abiding citizens. Just like during the short-lived alchohal ban (Only this time its gun's), Criminals that use guns to do bad will just smuggle them in. Gun control laws only worsten the situation. The people need to be changed, not the laws.

Gun control only hurts the honest gun buyer , gun control doesn't do one thing to stop criminals from getting guns , control only stops you the honest citizen from defending yourself against crime.

An attempt at alcohol control (prohibition) only created MORE alcohol. You try to prohibit guns and you'll see guns knee deep in the streets. In the 1880s they didn't need gun control because they didn't have shyster lawyers and gutless judges and snivelling liberals. A man who murdered another man with a gun spent the afternoon hanging by his neck. You don't need to try to weed out the guns. Weed out the sorry trash that use guns for crimes. Toss them out of a 10th story window and THEN let some spineless judge set them free to do it again. But that takes GUTS. Shouting about an object that is inanimate until some one picks it up just takes ignorance.

Blackie, it's because of creeps like you that I have a concealed carry permit. You not only have no class, but you also show traits of a sociopath. One person in that church with a ccw could have ended this tragedy quickly. As the saying goes, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

I'm completely anti gun control because it doesn't do a damn thing. What good is gun control when nearly 100% of criminals buy them stolen? You would be raising taxes for nothing.

Blackie, it's because of creeps like you that I have a concealed carry permit. You not only have no class, but you also show traits of a sociopath. One person in that church with a ccw could have ended this tragedy quickly. As the saying goes, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

i don't like the way you think.

Canemah - are you seriously trying to tell me that you actually believe that someone with a CCW would have stopped this man from shooting people?
The dude was crazy. His motivations were blurred and insane.
He had no regard for others, and clearly came with the intention to kill.
Someone else producing a weapon would have only increased the violence level and possibly killed more folks.

I'm always deflated by CCW people with a rambo-ass attitude.

I'm willing to bet that before he went on a rampage Adkisson was an honest law abiding gun owner, probably a card carrying member of the NRA. Like many conservatives he was a decent man who just hated Liberals. So he decided to take his legally owned shotgun and kill a few. I am a liberal. I don't carry a gun. I believe that if you have a brain a gun shouldn't be necessary. That's naive I know in this country where so many macho gun lovers are hell bent on wiping out any laws that would protect people like me. They want to force me to carry a weapon just to keep the gun toters from blowing my brains out. I resist that idea. Keep your guns, you conservative hate mongers, just understand that law-abiding presumes there are laws to abide. Not just the law of the jungle.

Marv

Some folks are suggesting that guns be permitted in high schools (and maybe middle schools as well), to be carried by teachers AND students for their own protection. Actually, this is something I would like to see. And perhaps the Supreme Court would get behind this as well, since they are solidly behind carrying weapons for self defense. Certainly, I wouldn't trust having just armed teachers - they can go wacko just like anybody else. No, EVERYONE needs to be armed. I hope this happens beginning in 2012. My daughter will have graduated high school by then.

And then, I'm going to try to buy as much stock as possible in the arms manufacturing companies.

Wait a second, Marv. When regular citizens who carry legal concealed guns tell you that you have nothing to fear from them because they are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, what, you don't believe them? Shame on you! If they weren't law abiding citizens, they wouldn't be able to legally own one or many guns. And if they legally own one or many guns, then they must be law abiding citizens. It's simple logic. Why can't you just take them at their word? I'm sure those folks take others at their word when it comes to investments and such. All you need to do is develop their faith in human nature.

Shades51

Anyone who feels it is necessary to carry a concealed weapon is someone to be feared, no matter what they say. Carrying a loaded concealed weapon means you are ready to shoot someone. It may be in self-defense against some imaginary threat, or as in this case, because you dislike the people you are shooting. My faith in human nature is reserved for people who don't feel the need to take another persons life on an arbitrary whim.

Marv

Gun control only hurts the honest gun buyer , gun control doesn't do one thing to stop criminals from getting guns , control only stops you the honest citizen from defending yourself against crime.

Did your rabidly liberal mentors addle your brain to the extent that you really think that heavy gun control will prevent thieves murderers and wackos from getting guns. They'll get them and easier than you think. But the citizen determined to obey the law won't. So the carjacker, murderer, home invader, and psycho will know they have an unimpeded free ride. And unless you or a family member are a victim of a violent crime inside a police station or a doughnut shop, the police will be powerless to help you.

One person in that church with a ccw could have ended this tragedy quickly.

One person DID end this tragedy quickly... and he did so by placing himself between others and the gunman... Not by bringing a firearm to church.

The Pearl Harbor raid took place on a Sunday. Was God asleep or watchihng in amusement? What the hell does Sunday have to do with anything? How many kids are killed by automoblles on Sunday on their way to church?

What the hell does Sunday have to do with anything?

Simple. People were there on Sunday.

great solution...or shall I say, non solution!!

Didn't you read the story? One person was killed.

Did you not read the whole story?

Gun control only hurts the honest gun buyer , gun control doesn't do one thing to stop criminals from getting guns , control only stops you the honest citizen from defending yourself against crime.

Many legally obtained guns are used to shoot innocent victims, I predict that the gun used in this attack was a legally owned gun.

Didn't you read the story? One person was killed.

I thought it was two.

MrArcadian, we can't get rid of society. So what do you suggest?

People did die... as I am sure you know now. In any case, I never could buy the whole "well he must be crazy so we should get him some help" defense. IMO, not every human being is salvagable. Some people are knowingly evil. This man looks to be one of them so I do hope he is held responsible for his horrendous actions.

WAIT! Someone did die; two people DID DIE!!!

With gun laws the way they are right now...where were all the gun toting law abiding citizens that could have stopped this guy??? Your argument doesn't hold water.

The law abidding left their guns outside. I'm sure there was a sign on the door. No guns allowed.

We are getting to a point where law abiding citizens should be packing.

I agree about the law abiders packing heat. If we are responsible enough to follow simple laws, we are likely to respect the laws that govern carrying a consealed weapon.

It's getting to the point where I'd rather be caught with one than caught without one.

Killerb,
In TN it is against the law to carry a gun in a church.

....And then the knives, and clubs, and rocks.............. When the politicians control the guns the next step is the people. i don't own a gun, but i don't believe in laws to stop lawbreakers. Absurd!!

Gun control only hurts the honest gun buyer , gun control doesn't do one thing to stop criminals from getting guns , control only stops you the honest citizen from defending yourself against crime.

the government should ban...knives,forks,skewers,sticks,rocks,bow/arrows,paintball guns,air soft guns. etc.

the funny thing is , more people are killed by drunk drivers each year than by guns.
you would think they would make it so , you cant start your car if you have had a drink.

Nice post Joe-Joe. I've said the same thing about banning cigarettes. Alcohol ruins more lives then smoking.

Right... and might I point out that the 9/11 hijackers used BOXCUTTERS if memory serves.

The law abide rs left there Guns at home because its against the law to carry in a church school court house police station and places that serve alcohol. The Lefties some how got that one ruled in their favor.

Probobly EXACTLY because it's a Unitarian Church. Belonged to one for a year or two. All very nice people. They're just too inclusive, drives some people batty.

Sadly, Unitarian churches are the perfect target for hate crimes. Because of their generous spirit of fellowship, you are likely to find just about any type of person you'd like to kill... different races, religions, backgrounds, sexual orientation, ect...

I do hope this doesn't cause a dampening of their inclusive nature. Many mainstream religious groups could stand to learn a few things regarding God's love from these people.

You are a moron. Plain and simple.

Maybe people should carry guns in church. Do you remember in church shootings in Colorado last year? After shooting up 2 churches the gunman was killed at the third church he went to. He was killed by a armed member of the church who was volunteering her time acting as security. No one in that church was harmed.

There are many states that have CCW permits. Morons like you have stated we will be going back to the Wild West and have shoot outs in the streets. It has not happened yet. States that have less gun laws and allow CCW have noticed a drop in violent crime while places with more strict gun control and gun bans have more violent crime. Why? Because criminals like to feel safe too. They prefer gun free zones. They love an unarmed victim.
Washington D.C. had a handgun ban for 32 years. Every year but one violent crime rose in the city. Kennesaw Ga passed a law in 1982 that said anyone legally eligable to own a gun must have one in their home. There have only been 3 murders in Kennesaw GA since 1982 and only one of those were with a gun. It was committed by someone from Atlanta while holding up a gas station.

Places where mass shootings take place:
Schools
Churches
Malls
All are usually gun free zones. Get the connection? If people were allowed to carry in these places (some churches allow CCW and some states allow in churches) then the criminal element would not be as brave to walk in shooting.

Gun control only hurts the honest gun buyer , gun control doesn't do one thing to stop criminals from getting guns , control only stops you the honest citizen from defending yourself against crime.

I actually want to thank those of you speaking out against gun control... to be honest I hadn't given the issue much thought and, being in Davis, a liberal college town, it's easy to go where the wind blows. But I think you've convinced me- we need the Second Amendment to stay strong to protect the populace.

You are a moron. Plain and simple.

Who are you, the pot or the kettle? From where I'm sitting, you're both pretty damn stupid.

Places where mass shootings take place:
Schools
Churches
Malls

Places where a lot of people often congregate...
Schools
Churches
Malls
Duh...

Here's an idea no one thought of. Maybe there IS no solution. I mean, we've come up with hundreds of deterrants to violent crime, haven't we? Yet crime rate is constantly increasing because the population continues to increase. The irony of this is not lost on me.

And all of the places are Gun-Free Zones.
Gun-Free Zones were made up by Liberals to make people feel safer. I bet these innocent people in their church feel safe now don't they? Or how safe do people feel going shopping in the malls of Omaha? How many students at VA Tech have demanded that VA Tech allow CCW permit holders to be armed (many)?

The deterrents to violent crime are non existent. There are people on the news who are in their late 20's and early 30's who have over 40 convictions on their records. These convictions go from misdemeanors to felonies. If the justice system would actually make violent offenders serve their time day for day then there just might be a deterrent out there. When you can rob a convenient store, get arrested, be released on bail, rob another store, get arrested, bond out, rob another store all before you go to trial is ridiculous. Then when you actually do go to jail the judge gives you credit for all times being locked up for your other crimes you committed since your first arrest and then gives you 3 for 1 days (when you serve one day the books say you served three) and then for a 5 year sentence you serve 9 month and placed on parole where you rob another store. Only this time you kill someone. You shouldn't be on the street to begin with.
If people want a deterrent here it is. If you rob or assault someone with a weapon (bat, brick, knife, gun any weapon) It is 20 years with no parole. If you murder someone with a weapon (same ones as before unless you can think of some new ones) then you are on death row (justifiable homicides are exempt). Here's the rub. Actually put people to death! No 25 years on the Green Mile. Give them 5. That would be fair, especially now with all of the DNA evidence used in crimes. Get rid of life in prison. If you kill you will be killed.

Places where a lot of people often congregate...
Schools
Churches
Malls Duh...

Here's an idea no one thought of. Maybe there IS no solution.

Sure there is... No more than three people should be gathered in any one place at any given time. /weak smile

Here's the rub. Actually put people to death! No 25 years on the Green Mile. Give them 5. That would be fair, especially now with all of the DNA evidence used in crimes. Get rid of life in prison. If you kill you will be killed.

Riiiight. The death penalty has been a HUGE murder deterrent in states with the death penalty.... Uh, NOT.

Look it up at deathpenaltyinfo.org

Here in my area a group of 2000 Mororcycle riders paid tribute this weekend to a local officer who was shot and killed by a man he was trying to arrest who had a permit to carry the weapon he used on the police officer. This is the second time they have been here in recent weeks as they paid tribute to another officer in another community a couple of weeks ago. The NRA which I used to be a member of before they got taken over by the firearms industry want free access to firearms with no hope of ever changing that. As long as they fill the pockets of politicians they will succeed.

no guns = more creative killings. just look at what happened in japan. now they want to look into more knife control. Its not the guns dumb dumbs its the people.

Look at Australlia ,they spent 300billion in tax dollars to buy back all the guns in the country.

shortly after , their crime rate went through the roof .

WHY ?

because only honest people turn in their guns , and now the criminals have a free run of the country to kill,rob and enjoy their un-armed victims.

Oh, I heard about the Australia thing! And isn't it also true that you can make your own (very crude) guns? "Rumble guns" or something like that? Basically very crude, not terribly effective but still supremely dangerous- partly because of the homemade workmanship. I think the street gangs use them here in California and other places.

It is astonishingly easy to make a crude gun, but its not even that hard to make a more sophisticated firearm with some basic metal working tools, the kind of thing you'd have in a well equipped home shop. The only thing that would be difficult with a basic shop are making rifled barrels, but even that is possible if you're willing to take the time and make some tricky tools yourself.

Yah Mike, back in the late forties to early sixties, "Zip guns" were a popular item to try and sneak thru shop class.

Careful what you wish for.

Because Congress has very well trained armed security.

Last tried in Truman's admin, folks from Puerto Rico.

Funny Michael, about MSNBC I mean.

The incident is a sad one. NO ONE can control who has guns. No gun control law will keep the guns out of the hands of nut jobs who can buy them on the street. This guy may have even had one legally and just weirded out for some reason.

'Gun control' is horse****'. I will continue to protect my home against violence upon my family, my constitutional right. But I don't take a gun when I leave the house.

My condolences to the families involved.

So MSNBC misspelled "church." Big deal. Last week Fox News did a piece on education and spelled it "eductaion."

I'm always amazed by the people who say, "I'm totally against gun control because it doesn't work -- of course, I support background checks and 5-day waiting periods." Duh! Don't you think that constitutes gun control -- as opposed to the situation we have now, in which any right-wing nutjob can walk into a gun show, plunk down cash, and walk out with an assault weapon? I say "right-wing" because I dare anyone to show me when a liberal went out, bought a gun, and shot up a gathering of conservatives. Just doesn't happen -- we're much too sane for that!

Ha, ha, ha,.... Fox can't spell because it's owned by Rupert Murdoch, who spews constant garbage from his Tabloids....STAR....NATIONAL ENQUIRER....GLOBE....
That's why I can't watch Fox News. It's nothing but yellow journalism and sensationalism. I'd say that Fox will eventually run a lead story concerning Elvis' love-child with Princess Diana. Anything for MONEY.

Here's an idea no one thought of. Maybe there IS no solution.

My apologies. Some of you obviously see what's going on here as well as I do.

Jegosett....TWO people died....REad the news story or listen/watch the news.

When I posted that comment no one had died yet. It was listed to begin with that seven people were injured. Then one died and then the second a few hours later. I did read the article, however the situation changed as the day progressed.

Wow! What a nice thing to say......

Was probably just the equivalent of "whistling in the dark." I am sure there are more than a few of us that wonder if we are safe anywhere... and that's a rather scary thought.

Great post. However, I believe that these people already know what they are trying to accomplish in this country and the free market is something that they despise. Instead of trying to convince them through your great examples, use that knowledge to inform all of your family and friends about this agenda of the far left.

No matter what you say, these people are only using this as an excuse to try and shove this ideology down our throats.

You have a lot to learn, DAWN. In working for the federal government 23 years after serving 4 in the military and traveling to 10 countries, I found an alarming number of criminals, nut cases and thugs among the ranks of doctors, lawyers, policemen, accountants and preachers. Those traits are inside the human mind and travel with the human to any vocation, career or profession the human goes to. They are not restricted to the criminal image you get from Hollywood and TV.

Thank you Mr. Fisher

dawn did it ever occur to you that there are just too many damn people to live together comfortably than there were back in 1951 or wherever the hell you get your perspective from?

No, it probably didn't...

There is something wrong with people and families, and of course our legal system which has beeen dominated by lefties and the ACLU nuts.

::cough:: You do realize, I am sure, that this particular "nut" was your garden variety conservative, right?

I think you may have a case of "selective comprehension". Sometimes the media puts in the race, sometimes they don't, regardless of skin color. Race has no issue. Some people just refuse to see beyond that, just like you did. You just aid that you "presume" he was white....why?? Would you also presume he was black if the description instead was "short, black hair" ??

With the limited information we readers have, there's no way to make ANY presumption about the killer's race......why even try?? Ever saw anyone disguise himself?? Ever saw a blond wig?? Ever saw a non-white minority with dyed hair?? Could have just as easily been anyone.....or could just as easily been a white.

Don't start up that same old tired race crap.

With this sad story the only thing you got from it is that they never said the guy was white? You need to wake up and see the big picture!

Well, you know, blacks don't usually do this sort of thing. I'm pretty sure all the school shooters were white, most serial killers are white(except two weirdos a couple of years ago), most postal killers are white, pretty sure most domestic violence shooting are white. Most drive byes seem to be committed by blacks, a lot of drug related killings are by blacks, a lot of gang related killings are by blacks. I don't know what the psychology is on all this, but it's sad anyway you look at it. None of the media provides any real description of the perps, and it's really a great disservice because we could be walking right past the criminal and never know it.

HAHAHAHHA !!! blacks don't do what ????

HHAHAHAHHAA !!!!

80% of all crime is committed by blacks.

SHANNON, wake UP! When I was a kid, many years ago, the newspapers and TV ALWAYS mentioned the race or ethnic origin of a criminal suspect. They stopped doing that in the late 60s, early 70s. They DON'T do that now. The only way you might guess that a suspect is Hispanic or Black is by name. The "media" NEVER says the suspect is White, Latino or Black. I suspect the Black and Latino political groups protested and the media gave in. However, if the suspect under arrest is named as Julio Herrera or Juanita Oriiz Gonzales, you might guess he or she is Hispanic. If their name is Anjuawn Awndrey Greene or DiSheeka Moleeka Brown you might guess they are Black. Otherwise you won't be given many clues. The fearless media WILL say a suspect male had "long blond hair" but will not say the male suspect had a huge Afro or hair plaited in corn rows. That would not be politically correct.

Actually, it more often seems the race of the suspected perp is left out when the circumstances seem to point to a minority. At, least in my experience.

Yeah I would normallyl agree with you but not in this case: nine times out of ten, if someone is blonde, they're also white.

The killer was a middle-aged grey-haired white man; not one with long blond hair. Can anyone read anymore? I think not.

That is a very interesting statment that you made "The problem IS the person". If only that were true. Just b/c somone committed a crime that does not mean that by prosecutting that person that you fixed the problem. Its more like a bandage if you don't get to the head of the problem. In reality its usually the hate organizations that they belong to that organize these attacks. I like to compare these people to organizations like Hamas or other extremist groups. The only difference is that foreign extremist usally like to be recognized for crimes they commit. THat I can respect. But for these yellar belly, cowardly dog, white supremasist groups who's leaders send their idiot people killers to do there crimes, but won't own up to them, thats just sick. I think that people like the idiot that commited this hate crime should be interrogated like the prisoners held in Cuba. Maybe then we could start to solve this problem.

Still its the people that are the problem. Cars dont speed without people. Bullets don't fly without people. Comment forums don't fill up without people.

I think you and Dawn are a match made in heaven. Can I get an invitation to the wedding?

Exactly, ANTOHNY. All these geeks have forgotten the super-religious BLACK woman who decided to rid the world of some sinners, so she drove her Lincoln continental down a Reno. NV sidewalk while clutching a bible in one hand. Killed 7, if I remember right. I never have liked Fords. Let's ban Lincolns. AND bibles.

I think, Anthony, that you should exchange your 20 gauge for a 12 gauge. While a 20 gauge is quite adequate for the home defense situation (given the close ranges), the selection of ammunition is far broader for 12 gauges - why, you can get bean bag and rubber rounds (for those who are adverse to killing), you can get rounds which shoot a blast of flame (works almost like a "flash bang", just don't aim it at the curtains), low penetration rounds (great for apartment dwellers who don't want to upset the neighbors), fleshette rounds (excellent for hitting folks trying to hide in the bushes), even explosive rounds (but you have to load the explosive component yourself, since it is illegal to ship the fully capable round). They even have graphite powder filled rounds for unlocking doors with minimum collateral damage.

But don't mind me, I'm just trying to be provocative. I figured the notion of we "gun nuts" all arming ourselves with incendiary rounds will cause the political left no end of sleepless nights... All these folks with their visceral hatred for guns - doctors' dirty hands kill over twice as many people every year as are shot (incl. murders, suicides, accidents, police and self-defense shooting, etc.) but we have organizations like "Physicians for Social Responsibility" advocating gun control, yet no "Gun Owners for Physician Responsibility". My goal is to put a guy with a gun behind every doctor to make sure he/she washes their hands between doing the prostate exam and the oral exam. I think that's a worthy goal, don't you?

HMP,
I woild like to give my condolences for the individual who lost his/her life in this tragedy and to wish a speedy recovery for the ones injured.

I am a Pagan but I believe anyone worsiping their faith should be safe in their place of worship.

I believe you're right, this was a hate crime. My condolences to you and your community of faith. Would that we all were Unitarian Universalists.

My condolences and best wishes to you and your family and congregation. The UU's are a great religion.. they like everyone. Can't figure out why some nutjobs dislike them so..

HMP,
sorry for your churches loss. But why should this be considered a "hate crime"? It's a crime, whether "leftisits" were killed or "righties", the punishment should be the same. It should never matter who was murdered, white, black, gay, straight, left, right; an innocent person is dead. The punishment should be the same, always.

I think that "hate crimes" lessens the value of life. Only if you are in a certain group does it merit this label, thus making for harsher sentencing and more investigation. That's wrong. Crimes should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, whether "hateful" or not.

Another comment--how could this church get away with being so political? What about seperation of church and state? Maybe the ACLU chapter the church started should look into these policies.

Another comment--how could this church get away with being so political? What about seperation of church and state? Maybe the ACLU chapter the church started should look into these policies.

Oh, for god's sake... why don't you ask Jerry Falwell the same question? :::serious eyerolling:::