
Georgia pounded the capital of its breakaway South Ossetia province with heavy weapons on Thursday after a cease-fire broke down within hours and separatists said they were under siege.
It is not the time to put blame - both sides are at fault. The tensions have been rising in this region ever since Kosovo was given recognized. Russia clearly has been the main aggressor, they have always wanted this land back and have undermined the Georgian independence from day one and especially since the Rose Revolution - But - Georgian politicians also must take blame for an over the top reaction to the Soviet advance. American and the UN must also take responsibility for not seeing this escalation for what it was. The world seems to not want to prevent catastrophes - only react when it is too late.
There should be immediate intervention by the UN to stop escalation - mediation by Russian peacekeepers should never have been seen as acceptable - there needs to be a non-biased third party who can help calm the situation. This world does not need another war based on political grandstanding for territorial gain. These macho men who want to prove to the world that they are right need to think about the people that are living in the trenches of warfare. War cannot solve these issues. Diplomacy seems to be a lost art these days.
I agree about Kosovo completely. Bill Clinton's legacy of lies. We went into the fight on the side of Osama bin Laden's thugs who had been successfully conducting ethnic cleansing for 2 years against Serbs. There was no genocide, that was all a lie.
But the situation in South Ossetia is not at all like Kosovo. Imagine if the USA rolled its tanks into Quebec while the Twin Towers in New York were falling, found a hoodlum who would agree to be the leader of the "rebels" of Quebec. Then the president orders every citizen of Quebec to be given American passports, and commissions a few statues to the "brave rebels of Quebec". Finally, after 4 years, the government of Canada attacked Quebec.
Prior to Russia's invasion, the people living in the province of South Ossetia were peaceful, happy, and did not want to be Russians.
I am not saying that the situation is like Kosovo - I agree they are very different. I am saying that since the recognition of Kosovo the tensions have risen in Georgia because Russia did not like the outcome and are concerned with Georgian's wanting to join NATO. I think that the US, should be supportive of Georgia in its attempt at democracy even though there are still issues with the current presidency there. The people of Georgia do not want war, they are the most loving, hospitable people I have ever met. It is both of the governments who need to think before acting. Russia is and has been acting as the bully in this situation for the last year. Anyone who has has an eye or ear to this situation would realize that.
I have seen great reconciliation occur in Georgia between Muslims and Christians; and between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians through work based on mutual respect and understanding. Diplomacy can work and has worked when done with respect to all parties points of few. It does take open minds though for it to work.
My prayer is for peace to this beautiful country and its peoples.
You are telling lies, tornadze. How come 95% of ossetian population are russian citizens, two referendums passed with the same result (Russia yes, Geoggia no) and you are trying to persuade us ossets want to be with Georgia? Look for idiots in another place, please.
Anyone remember a Tom Clancy novel and video game called Ghost Recon from the early 2000's? This exact story was the basis for both. Should we have seen this coming? To me yes. If a fiction writer can predict this to the year and month there is something wrong with our intelligence community. Hopefully the rest of the fictitious story doesn't hold true.
What if Florida decided to leave? Would we blow the state off the map?? Need I say more....
You're assuming that Flordia is the only state that leaves and where the majority of the hankie wringers reside.
Well....G.W. might? now who did I piss off??
Fred, I was really hoping you wouldn't say more.
I agree with Fred.
Diplomacy has never worked, not one time in the history of the world. You don't talk any country or culture out of doing anything unless they fear the consiquenses of what you might do if they don't comply. Russia has a vested intrest in this territory and what we or anyone else thinks really doesn't matter to them. There is no such thing as a true win/win situation, there is always someone who profits more than the other. Human nature dictates that to be.
Just for kicks I'll lay out the fictitious Tom Clancy story so if it's true you heard it here first. Basically we send in a Spec Op team to help the Georgian Rebels, Russia eventually finds out and threatens to nuke Georgia if we don't pull out. The Spec Op team barley averts the nuclear strike and a second cold war begins paving the way for more novels and games. Let's all hope this does not come to pass.
We have a military base with troops in Georgia.
John, stop calling yourself an American. All these "we", "us". You're Georgian, so say "Americans a have military base in Georgia". You're hiding your Georgian origin in this discussion. I am Russian, and I say "we" and "us" when I mean Russia. Call thing by their names please.
I am not Georgian. I was born and raised in the USA Sash. I had a Russian wife. My ancestry is from northern Europe, and according to genetic analysis was there for 20,000 years. :-)
Being a "real American" I have half the world's races and ethnic groups in my family tree. :-) I do not have the luxury of thinking I am one thing or another, and raising my fist to shake at "those people". Ancestors on both sides killed each other.
So, when I say "we" I mean the USA. Ponal?
Mr. Toradze:
You are really a lier! Your words "We have a military base with troops in Georgia" have NOTHING to do with the truth. There is NO AMERICAN BASE in Georgia. There are only less than 200 people who were involved with training of Georgian army for several years now. And I have to say they should be ashamed whom and for what mission they trained.
I pray that the readers of these posts are smart enough to rely on their own research and pay attention to facts and not the orchestrated barrage of propaganda which seems to have infiltrated this article. This is serious stuff ' so for those who can read : do your homework.
One of the facts is that Russia is that as of now Occupying the regional capital of a FOREIGN COUNTRY.
George Bush, this is a crisis more important than watching a ball game !!!!
My thoughts exactly. He and Putin should have left and gone home. why is Georgia asking for help from the white house?
Why is Georgia asking for help? Russia's army is far larger than Georgia's army is.
Well done! It seems that a few thinking people are paying attention to the larger significance of this conflict...
Georgian is real killers - they kill CHILDREN AND WOMAN - and it doesn't matter what they want to do BUT ANY WAY THEY KILL CHILDREN AND WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they kill people without weapon, without ability to protect yourself. 8 village is ob fire.... Can you imagine that somebody destroy your home and kill your wife and your children!?!?!?! You can't !!!!!!!!!!!! And may be only 0.00001% in US can... But in Osetiya everybody can!!!!!!!!!!!!! and 20% already see this!!!!!!!! shame on stupid Georgian Hitler --- Saakashvili.
I believe that Russian can help to safe children s life.... Because nobody in the whole WORLD don't whant to do this!!!!!!!!!!!! Just empty words and nothing action. Everybody just looks how children and woman dies....
Glad you brought up the children. Why did the Russian supported separatist enclave a few days ago order a mass evacuation of the children to Russia ? At the time I thought it strange and could not understand their reasoning. Seems to me they knew what the plan was. Any other possible explanation?
Why? What sort of question is that? Because the South Ossetians could plainly see Georgian troops and armour massing on their border, thats why.
The Georgians chose this fight. They advanced their forces, they engaging in probing attacks to test Ossettians defense, they launched a major assault. And you think this is some kind of Russian plot?
Trust me I've been paying attention of years now. I see Russia's resurgance, I see a rogue Iran under the control of luniticts enriching uranium, I see a dictator in Venezuela buying billions of dollars of Russian arms. I see worldwide Islamic Extremist's plotting the destruction of western civilization. While the majority polital party in my country aided by the national press focus on universal health care, pacifism, environmental extremist susicide for the nation. Yes the world situation is dangerous and the a good many of american citizens are set on a sunshine and lollypops agenda ignoring the world they live in.
Well, Deacon, the 'majority political party in my country' has been the majority by the slimmest of margins since 2006. What was the 'majority political party in my country' doing BEFORE 2006? '...The world situation is dangerous.' Yes, it is, and made even more so by pre-emptive war, for oil and global control of oil. US foreign policy, set by the present adminstration, using plans concocted well before 2000 in your country, has lead us down a slippery slope making us no better than those we seek to criticize for doing the same thing.
Perhaps if this is an issue of attempted genocide (cleansing) then maybe we all could learn a lesson from the Russians, and apply thiskind of force in other regions of the world, not when it just is in our interests. If that is Russia's argument.
It's a shame.
Vladimir Putin = George Bush. They are both egomaniacal would-be dictators. Russia is now flexing its military might. George Bush and his neocon sycophants have squandered all of our moral standing and, more importantly, most of our military resources in a senseless war conducted with criminal negligence to it's military and to the American People. Can anybody say "Poland" or"German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact "? only the very ignorant can't see were this is leading! except there won't be anybody to come to Georgia's help... on the other hand, might this not very well become the Iraq of the Russians and sink them economically?... guess that leaves China as the clear leader...?
Not exactly. Yes Russia invaded Georgia if South Ossetia is considered Georgia. Russian troops have not get onto actual Georgian territory (ourside South Ossetia). Georgia acted like a small kid who hit the dog and then run away calling Daddy. Russian is not fighting Georgians in Georigia, we fight Georgia in Ossetia. This may sound wrong anyway, I admit. But who will defend Ossetia (they almost don't have troops).
All parties involved are fighting for their best interests, no one is goody-goody here. Don't simplify it. The most vulnerable parts are South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Both, like Kosovo, want independence, both are being pushed by Georgia to come under its control. Russia tries to steal those regions from Georgia or at least keep them as stick and carrot to influence Georgia.
It's a bit more complicated than Russia invades Georgia.
Well, at least we all now know the answer to the question "who is the real president and in charge of Russia?"
= That old KGB master of conspiracy and power, Putin himself.
Russia is obviously trying to restore it's lost empire, and the West needs to recognize this and treat it as such = a trade embargo against the Russkies, and against China too if china doesn't join the boycott.
Our western economies used to boom without trade with the old USSR and China, so we dont need 'em.
And i hope the Georgians kick the Russians' butts.
I'm sorry, ah who owns a large % of US debt, thats right China. You sir are an idiot for thinking that an embargo against Russia and China would do anything but hurt the US more.
To DL_...
If you believe that an embargo is not the answer or even wrong to the point of being an "idiotic" idea, then so state. Otherwise you are simply attacking an individual because you disagree with his views. And that is truly "idiotic".
Unfortunately, without American backup, the Georgian army is unlikely to prevail against Russia. I suspect Saakishvili has miscalculated, thinking that he needs to do this in the last days of GW Bush. But Bush and his team are pretty dumb. Putin has figured this out, and is banking on America being too overextended to risk a serious skirmish with Russia. 8 years ago, the military would have been spoiling for this fight. Now they have plenty to do.
We shall see. If the US garrison rumbles up the road, the Russian tanks will turn around. Even if Putin orders them to stay and die to show it on Russian television, I think the Russian officers will either just give up or ignore the orders. They still remember how the USA army cut Russian armor and Russian military adviser's tactics to shreds without breaking a sweat during the Iraq invasion.
It's on GW Bush's shoulders. I'm not expecting much.
You may imagin whatever but don't think US woul be backing Georgia with any government at power. US, China and Russia have much more interest between themselves despite all disagreements that they will never start wars between themselves, unless someone is really stupid at power. Direct wars between big countries have high chance of escalating into global wars (like WWII), who really wants it? In global politics people act in their interests only. What is the interest for US to have a war with Russia even if Russia invades Georgia? I don't see any. Same as China did not start war against US after invasion of Iraq or Afganistan. These are all 'local-interest' wars, they create tensions between big countries, but not real conflicts. Be realistic in you aspirations, tomorrow US may start war with Venezuela, and China and Russia will stay far away watching, same happens in this case.
They still remember how the USA army cut Russian armor and Russian military adviser's tactics to shreds without breaking a sweat during the Iraq invasion.
You're funny!
DL, i know that China is our banker. But you also forget that they are still MUCH poorer than us and need trade with us alot more than we need trade wiuth them - so as to continue to grow their economy.
As for the Georgians being unable to kick the Russkies butts, have we forgotten the Afghans or Chechens?
Before they finally managed to 'defeat' the Chechens?
And also let's not forget their wars with Finland and Japan before WW2 and a century ago = the Russians got their butts kicked.
BTW, i'm changing my pic just for u, and will put up a new pic each day if u want me to, until you learn what a smart, sexy young woman looks like, k.
I guess some GOP ppl are hanging out in male bathrooms way too much...
I know what I read and I am reading it as a he said/she said kind of thing. Where everyone is pointing fingers at who started it. Am I correct in this assumption? If that is the case could it have been rebels masquerading as Georgians to get Russia all hot and bothered?
If I am wrong please correct me.
No, the action was officially backed by Georgian media and Georgian president. No show here.
best case scenario is Saakashvili will be looking at world tribunal court on war crimes, If he lives to see that!
The US needs to stay out of this one. It's not our problem.
You're absolutely, right, ol' Hoss! The U.S. needs to spend a tremendous amount of time tending to business here at home rather dipping it's beak into someone else's water. . .or vodka, whatever the case may be.
A small correction: on the picture at the bottom of the page 1 is a Russian ground support and assault plane Su-24, not a fighter jet. Su-24 is sort of an equivalent of the American-made A-10 Tank Killer (Warthog).
I thought something didn't look right.
Bush has no business to involve us is this territorial dispute this is between Georgia and Russia ,Bush must be stopped from playing his little Napolean role . If we become involved it will end in an global war .
Bush never saw a war he didn't like (except Viet Nam)
YEA, THE SKY IS FALLING, NO MATTER WHO IS RIGHT OR RIGHT AND EVEN WRONG AND WRONG. NO MATTER WHAT THE TRUE STORY IS. THIS IS A KILLING OF PEOPLE AND EVERYONE IS TO BLAME. MAYBE EXCEPT THE DEAD, THE CHILDREN, WOMEN AND OTHER INNOCENT SURVIVORS. ANYONE TAKING ARMS AGAINST ANOTHER NO MATTER THE JUST CAUSE, MIGHT IS RIGHT, BRING IT ON TYPES, SELLERS OF WEAPONS, NO MATTER THE REASON ARE TO BLAME. THAT MUST MAKE US ALL THE ACCUSED AND THE ACCUSERS. DID WE REALLY THINK THAT THE WORLD WILL CHANGE WHEN MANKIND'S HISTORY HAS BEEN POWER, DESTRUCTION, DEATH ... NO DON'T GIVE UP!
THE TRUTH WILL EVENTUALLY COME OUT, EVEN AS THE LIES, MISINFORMATION AND THE DEVIL KNOWS WHAT ELSE. YES, THERE WILL BE BLOODSHED. WE KNOW NOTHING ELSE, WE PRAISE NOTHING ELSE, WE SELL, WE STOCK PILE, WE MANUFACTURE ALMOST BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. WE HAVE TO BE PREPARED FOR THE WOLF AT THE DOOR - REAL OR NOT. MAKE-UP YOUR MIND CAUSE MOST OF THE RESPONDENTS HAVE. I FOR ONE WILL LET GOD BRING EVERYONE TO JUSTICE. MYSELF INCLUDED, ANDI PRAY THAT GOD'S MERCY AND WISDOM IS BROUGHT TO BEAR ON OUR WORLD NO MATTER WHAT OUR BELIEFS MAYBE.
I will admit not knowing too much about this one. My gut says the old, hard line communists are never that far from power in Russia, and they are still smarting from the collapse of their empire in the 1980s and 1990s. They have discovered that by obtaining and accessing oil and energy, that they can regain that power and leverage. That makes them dangerous, as it makes Saudi Arabia and China dangerous, if we are reliant upon them for our oil.
We need to drill offshore, in Anwar, and under my kitchen sink if there is oil there. And we need to pursue alternative sources where it makes sense. Only then will we be in a position of strength to deal with these sorts of situations. Right now, we are too scared of what might happen to our energy supplies if we do anything.
My prayers are with the innocent people caught in this conflict. My prayers are also with my country that we wake up and realize that this world is a dangerous place for freedom, and electing people like Obama and Pelosi who don't realize this, and think we can "talk and make nice" with everyone is a fool's game.
A small correction to one of the accompanying slides. A local man is suppossedly greeting the Georgian troops nearing the capital of the S.O. However, as far as I can see, one of the cars has Russian flag on it. Not sure which alphabet the Georgians are using on the license plates on their cars but what slide shows are NOT the Georgian letters.
Perhaps these soldiers are Russians and not Georgians? This would also explain the greeting part.
My poor us guys.. I checked your news sites and cnn tv.. you don't have democracy at all in your country - as far as all your media is 100% bull@!$%# and no one word of true in it. Looks like Mr.Bush are together with Gitler-Saakashvili whu murdered even injured civilians and peacekeepers!!!!?????
Mike
Moscow
Maybe our media is run by the same people that runs yours.
Paul...at least they collaborate
Folks: This situation is really not about whether or not the Georgians or the Russians will prove to be the true aggressor. What we have is a hot war between one of the three extant "super-powers" and another nation. Should Russia merely show that she is defending her own territory, which the situation seems to indicate, we still have the Russians advancing within hundreds of miles of Iran, and less than 1,000 miles from American (and allied forces, including the third largest contributor to the 'Allied Coalition,' Georgia) troops. Maybe, there is something missing here. Perhaps, Putin, Bush and low and behold the only other superpower, China (hosting the Olympic Games), are all together at one time by accident. This seems to be quite an interesting coincidence. Mother Russia in now, logistically, one small country away from the fourth largest oil producer in the world, Iran. Cynicism mixed with curiosity would cause me to think in this situation that timing is everything. The question, I believe, is will an oil pipeline connect the Russian Confederation and The Islamic Republic of Iran? Granted, it would have probably cost several hundred million, indeed, billions of US dollars to have staged such a well planned scenario. The payoff? Well, it would seem that connecting Russian and Iranian petroleum output (hypothetically, of course) might be considered, as least in theory, a tad too uncomfortable for Western consumers of petroleum. Some thoughts on larger geopolitical considerations just might be in order…
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