Georgia pounds breakaway capital

I hope this time braca Rusi zapale usrane Gruzijce. Jebes medjunarodnu zajednicu, ona i propagira ovakva sranja.

Curiosity got me this time. Reading the above reply by baki, I was curious to know what it was he said. So I put it through a translator and here's what a got:

"I hope this time brother Russia fire amidst Georgia. Heresy medjunarodnu commonwealth , she plus propagatory such bu******."

I don't know if anyone else was wondering the same thing, but that's why I did it. And also it came out rough and on line translators aren't always perfect, but hey I tried. XD

Dear John Toradze what you are wrong is, South Ossetians don't want to be part of Georgia. You can't make them. Russia has its own motives "geopolitical strategy" what ever , seams to me you understand this things better then me. One thing for sure I can understand the Russian reaction. If Russia dindent defend Russian pop would be a really not good for already weakened russun influence in the region. Not to mention that 2000 Russians died in on the first day of so called Russian invasion.

What lies "Dr. Strok". Let us talk about Russia's involvement in the Caucasus, shall we? Then we shall discuss why. Along the way, let us visit old friends.

What Russia has done.

1. In the early 1990's, Russia created the Abkhazian separatist movement by hiring and training Chechens as mercenaries. At the time of that war, roughly 12% of Abkhazia was "Abkhazian" and during that war, only one "Abkhazian" body was found. All the others were Chechen and - Russian. Oh, dear! How could this be?! Because Russia paid them all, and Russian KGB, spetznatz and officers ran the whole operation.

2. After the "armistice" because of its "peacekeepers" on Georgian soil, Russia gave all of those still residing in Abkhazia Russian passports. By that time almost 1 million refugees had left the region and gone and overwhelmed the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. If you go downtown, you can still see the old great hotels, filled with refugees, still waiting to go home.

3. Russia placed Igor Giorgadze inside the Georgian secret service. Igor Giorgadze is the man who met with Aldrich Ames in Tbilisi, when Ames was a double agent. Giorgadze got the ok from Moscow to kill Fred Woodruff, the CIA agent that was murdered in a car just outside Tbilisi, probably by the woman in the car using a pen gun.

4. Igor Giorgadze coordinated several attempts on the life of Eduard Shevardnadze. Igor was supposed to take over Georgia and become the puppet dictator. But Igor has problems now, doesn't he "Dr. Strok"? Igor is wanted by Interpol for numerous crimes, isn't he, Dr. Strok? But he lives in Moscow, openly, and when other nations, from the EU to Georgia ask for him to be extradited, somehow the FSB (the new incarnation of the KGB) can't find him. Strange, don't you think? And then there are those scattered reports that Igor met with bin Laden prior to 9-11. Eh, "Dr. Strok"? What else does Igor know? We are very curious to know.

5. During the Beslan massacre, when the world was watch the horror of a school full of children held hostage, what was the Russian army doing? That's right. It was rolling south under cover from that most attractive story. This worked, didn't it "Dr. Strok"? Didn't it. And then when the incident was over, the last one of those men, who was later dead, shot in the back, was reported to have been overheard saying that "it was all supposed to have been arranged!"
So, ok. You got us there. The West has, indeed, become a passel of children.

6. What did Russia do after taking over the province of South Ossetia? Oh, dear. That's right! They gave everyone Russian passports again. How many years ago was that? Oh, that's right. It was 4 years ago. My dear.

Motivation. What does Russia stand to gain here?

Russia wants control of the only exit for Central Asian oil that is not controlled by Moscow.

If you look at the route of the pipeline from Baku into Turkey, you will see that it snakes around in a funny way. What it is doing is keep maximum distance between the pipeline and "ethnic pockets" within Georgia that are more than 10% of some other "ethnic group". Russia already has its feet in Armenia, just to the other side of Tbilisi. With South Ossetia in its control, there is a narrow neck of land 10 miles wide that the pipeline route is through.

Beyond control of the only pipeline that supports the central asian nations that Moscow wants back for their oil, Georgia is a strategic gateway on the map that controls the highway going south. Now where does the Georgian military highway lead to that the Soviets built? Could it be? Yes, it is - Iraq and Iran.

Now beyond controlling the pipeline so that Moscow can increase its income and strangle the Central Asian former provinces of the USSR, what does the Kremlin want with Iraq and Iran? My word. Could it be ... oil?

Say hello to Igor for me, will you "Dr. Strok?" Tell him that John Toradze sends his greetings. Do be a sweetheart. Thanks.

A side note on those Chechen mercenaries paid to fight on the fake side of Abkhazia.
When they were terminated from employment and returned to Chechnya, those men became the Chechen rebellion. At the beginning of that war, they cut the Russian garrisons to shreds in Chechnya.

The west talks about its problems with blowback. Chechnya has been Russia's blowback for the Abkhazian war. Not that the Chechens have made themselves popular in the surrounding area, what with leading raids on villages in northern Georgia to have a night of partying and fun raping the local girls.

Ah, the Caucasus. It has been a bath of blood for tens of thousands of years. Walking its streets and hills one sees how the human race evolved, with most caucasian people of the world's scattering to Europe visible as true breeding phenotypes.

If you ask me, Georgia should be made into a world park to record its genetics and history.

Right ON DR STROK! killing children and elderly people is a shame! Georgia made a BIG mistake! South Osetiya is an Independent Country! and georgia and UN have to accept it!

Excuse me. If South Ossetia, is an independent nation, then why is Russia providing the troops and tanks?

This province is now in the hands of Russia which has installed a puppet "leader" who is just a thug. The civilian casualties are his doing, and he was eager to arrange them. He has known for a while this was coming, just as Russia did. Russia took care of its own, but Russia has intentionally sacrificed the lives of those civilians using this puppet as the instrument.

Dr. Strok, I must do more research before I buy into what you state. You sound like someone with an agenda.

Absolutely agree with you

Dr.Strok, I agree with you 100% on this one.

Oh and one more thing.John Toradze,with all you know you should write a book and don't forget to also include the U.S. in the war for oil business.

Right on Dr. Strok, I also strongly agree with you.

And the information that John Toradze gave was quite surprising, maybe Russians did what they had to since Iraq and Iran aren't in any conflict with the Russians, unlike Americans.

I do not know if any of this is right, but I hope it is.

I agree, hey Toradze, What a CIA was doing there and got kill for? Holidays, vacations,...?Who made those reports about Bin Laden ?
And what we can tell to the ""American saviors"" for what they have done in the whole world?

Brian, Georgia has no significant oil or gas fields to cause a war (I'm a petroleum geologist).

John Toradze is Georgian by origin, hence his comments are biased.

I'm Russian, so I'll not comment on who is right ot wrong here. My main point is till recently the situation was in balance - Russia supports South Ossetia but does not accept its independence and Georgia does not enter NATO. This was the balance, both parties would lose if this balance is lost, i.e. Russia may recognize South Ossetia as independent if Georgia enters NATO and vise versa. This conflict will not be long as the balance is restored. Russia does not want a war with Georgia, neither does Georgia want this war. Russia apparently wants influence in Caucasus and wants to hold Georgia from joining NATO. Russia is extremely sensitive to NATO bases close to its borders.

This conflict is a political issue, both sides are nervous and Saakashvili pulled the trigger first this time, but anyway the result is the situation will stay as it was before the attack. There is no easy way to resolve it as South Ossetia does not want to come back under Georgia ruling (there is some kind of ethnic conflict) and Russia does not trust Georgia, so there is no common ground for a deal.

From humanitarian point of view Georgian attack on Tskhinvali cased casualties among civilians and destroyed this little town (its population is 30 thousand people). Will see what the town looks like after the attack by tomorrow.

Ah, but Alexander, John Toradze is just a pen name. My origin? It is probably less Georgian than yours is. That distance in time, according to genetic analysis, hails from the Germanic part of Europe for about 20,000 years.

So, no, my comments are not biased at all by ethnicity. I was married to a Russian, and I have traveled much in Russia and like the people very much. But I am also honest and not blinded by Russian nationalism. And, I am an educated man, trained to analyze.

Russia wants control of the pipeline from Baku. Once Russia gets that, it will strangle Kazakhstan and other central asian nations into returning to Russia. This is not in the interest of the USA or any other nation in the world. I am not fond of the central asian fools who run that part of the world, but having them controlled entirely by Russia is not in the interest of the rest of the planet.

It is a little bit presumptious to speak for the whole planet. One of the things which is definitely not in the US interests is to get involved in a separatist fighting in the region which has marginal (to put it mildly) interest to us. Not to mention that after recognition of the Kosovo separatists (all the way to bombing Serbia), we are hardly in a good moral position to start telling that separatism is illegal. As for the projected pipelines, drilling on the US territory and development of the alternative sources of energy would make the whole issue totally irrelevant.

OTOH, scenario you are pushing makes the US a hostage of the small-scale regional hoodlums and their foolhardy politics (like one we are watching now). What is the gain?

True, but if Georgia is currently suppling troops for us in Iraq, we may have some sort of obligation.

Dear Paul:
Do you believe that we have to support everybody who simply is on our side in Iraq? If a criminal regime that kill innocent people, violate international agreements, bombs sleeping city, commit ethnic cleansing is our all in Iraq we should be on their side? What a moral perversion, Sir!
And these are words of my fellow American who should be objective, freedom and peace loving people, as we portray our selves around the world. Now I am not surprised that so many people around the world point at us as moral monsters that are using double standards in foreign policy and completely lost the moral ground for the world leadership. My poor America, what is happening with you? Whose fault is this? Media, education… I do not know. But people in this forum that obviously represent different countries should not, I beg you, should not think that Paul is all America! Please….

But we support China. We used to support Iraq, etc. When has supporting criminal regimes ever been a problem for this country? If they have oil or any other resources or strategic influence, the US has never had a problem siding with them. I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying if they do, it shouldn't surprise anyone.

It's what we get when we let our government become like this (and yes we let it). Way too many politicians if they did the same things they do in office in a non-government job, they'd be in jail.

I guess you think that having the price of a barrel of oil rise by another $50 is ok then? And that feeding the Kremlin our money instead of the Saudis is just fine? While the Saudis and their habit of supporting Wahabbi jihadists is lousy, just wait until the Kremlin starts shoveling all that money.

Fact is, the only problems with Georgia's independence have been because of Russia. No, Russia will not take on a nuclear war to keep South Ossetia. Russia will withdraw and play the waiting game and change its tactics. Might even behave itself.

No, this is the time to confront. The time to confront was actually during Bill Clinton's term as president. But Bill didn't care much. Really dropped the ball on that one. And then the idiot in cheif took command and wasted a trillion dollars on Iraq, and didn't respond to Russia's aggression with a peep. With the American people so horribly informed, it is small wonder that the Kremlin thinks it can do whatever it wants.

It is also very understandable that the Kremlin does this because Russia, when Putin took power, was a basket case. The Western world had laughed at them and pushed policies that killed millions of Russians from starvation and the effects of national collapse. Almost nobody in the USA has a clue how bad it was in Russia. The Kremlin had to get money, somehow, or watch the nation disintegrate. I have great respect for Putin. He has done an excellent job for Russia. He is a patriot. The USA may be in a state of collapse soon. If we get there, we will be lucky to find a man as good as Putin for our side.

. No, Russia will not take on a nuclear war to keep South Ossetia. Russia will withdraw and play the waiting game and change its tactics. Might even behave itself.

Why would they have to withdraw? With up to 1,000 Israelie "advisors" mixing it up in the region, this may become the perfect opprotunity for Putin to flex Russia's new military muscle, bringing it back on the world stage as a reborn super power. Which will invigorate Russian nationalizim even more, bringing Putin even more power, ect, ect, ect....

And I thought I was the only one who noticed. Putin pulled off a bloodless coup and hardly a word was said. Siberian Oil is putting money back in their coffers. Billions in arms sales to Venezuela, Iran and China to name a few. While our own socialist press has tunnelvision on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Oh yeah this is the time to be electing a light weight hankie wringer to handle America's world affairs. Not a good senerio.

"... this is the time to be electing a light weight hankie wringer to handle America's world affairs."

And who might that be, Deacon?

Russia's goal is to protect its own citizens (90% of population in South Ossetia.) Georgia started aggression, destroyed the capital of South Ossetia and killed more than 1,400 civilians. I would be suprised if US stayed calm if something similar happened to its citizens. The thought that Russia wants to rule the world is simply stupid.

Georgia is not a small democratic country who just wants to live in peace - its leader almost completely destroyed opposition, held dirty elections, surpressed all major businesses, and now STARTED the war (4.4 mln people against 70k in South Ossetia.)

I did not find a single phrase in your text that was not a lie.

I don't discredit any possibilities any more. Just when we think something is too far-fetched to ever happen, here it arrives on our front porch. Look at 9-11 -- many could have not imagined something like that happening in the USA. There will be another attack; our enemies are just patiently biding their time for the right moment. We're (USA) is going to someday pay a big price for our open-door immigration policies.

Russia's goal is to protect its own citizens (90% of population in South Ossetia.) Georgia started aggression, destroyed the capital of South Ossetia and killed more than 1,400 civilians. I would be suprised if US stayed calm if something similar happened to its citizens. The thought that Russia wants to rule the world is simply stupid.

Georgia is not a small democratic country who just wants to live in peace - its leader almost completely destroyed opposition, held dirty elections, surpressed all major businesses, and now STARTED the war (4.4 mln people against 70k in South Ossetia.)

I did not find a single phrase in your text that was not a lie.

Thank you Independence I ! This is all very disheartening to me,but knowing you are connecting the dots helps a lot! Every time I see an American German Nazi skin head I cringe and shake from the tip of my toes to the top of my head!
We don't need an other American envolvement in a foriegn war . Please continue to bring out this conflict for all of us everyone of you. I don't care where you came from ,what line of the apes or who cares. Let there be peace today and if we have to clean up Europe ,well, we can you know . We may be in debt to China and everything looks bad ,but we still have American stamina and American bloodlines that do tend to fight for the under dogs. Well,lately that can be us, too .If the battle is for the right reasons and our history is very obvious. Also don't forget the Immigrants....they can help us fight these new wars!!!!!! Same ole! Same Ole!

Thanks

I suppose that after this quote negates all arguments stating that Russians do not want to take over the world.

Why have you even bothered to write this? Or people in your part of the world are unhappy unless they make stupid comments or take a posture of God-chosed ones.

Bush aready talked to God, he's just waitting for an answer, it's all up to God now.

Last August Russia planted their flag on the sea floor below the North Pole. They have claimed the crude oil and natural resources beneath the Arctic Circle as theirs. Their grab for the worlds crude oil and natural gas resources has just begun.

Yea, now is the time for a weak kneed president of the USA. We need someone with gonads. Where is Hillary when we need her.....mmmmmmmmmm I didn't say that. Ha! Ha!

IMO if we do not drill in ANWR now. In thirty years all you will see there will be Russian oil platforms.
see http://www.countercurrents.org/penketh030807.htm

Actually, Russian claim to Arctics is MUCH older because the old SU was always claiming this territory as their: you can see how the borders had been marked on their old maps (triangle between the Soviet Western and Eastern borders and the North Pole). The only difference between then and now is that now oil extraction from these regions became practical.

OTOH, it is not clear to me how exactly (in 30 years or at any other time) the Soviet 'oil platforms' will appear in the midst of the US territory: AFAIK, ANWAR is in (a) Alaska (which means that the Russians will not go there just because want to) and (b) not in the open sea (which means that drilling there does not involve 'platforms')

AC:

Yea, now is the time for a weak kneed president of the USA. We need someone with gonads.

My preference would be for Condoleezza Rice as President the next 4 years. She knows Russian history and politics like the back of her hand. Studying Russian history is what caused her to change her Major in college. I think Hillary would be okay (better than Obama, but not sure about McCain in this situation), but Condie would be best. I know, I know. She's not running for office. Okay, Hillary - might have to write her in on the ballot.

I agree AC

Abkhazia is fine right now, though there were a couple of bomb blusts there about two-three weeks ago. But potentially it is in same situation as South Ossetia (i.e. Georgia wants it back, Abkhazia declares independence, Russia keeps troops there kind of piece-keeping force in case Georgia decides to force Abkhazia back).

Russia used its troops and mercenaries to create it to start with. Now that 90% of the population of "Abkhazia" has left as refugees, you want to claim it is an independent nation?

Abkhazia is administered as a fief of moscow.

Regarding your young friend, Indiana, it is his world. That ground is bloody with the wars dating back before the Greeks had a civilization. Cultivate dispassion. It is the only way to deal with the endless slaughter under the feet of the horsemen.

Dear Indiana-411994:
Abkhazia can not and will not stay aside in this conflict. They should and I hope will act to secure themselves from similar Georgian agression. The best what you can do to Abkhazia and its people will be to call to your Senator and Representative and ask them to stop any support to bloody Georgian regime of M. Saakashvili and recognize independence of Abkhazia as well as South Ossetia.

And Chechens played no part in that war? And there were no Russians? And a few statues, erected with funds from Russia, are enough to rewrite history in your mind?

Come now. If you believe in such tales, you still believe Det Moroz is going to give you a pretty blonde girl for Christmas with a bottle of vodka. :-)

Yes, I know all about the battle for Soukhumi. Your Russian troops made a special effort to kill Eduard Shevardnadze there on orders from Moscow. I know the commander who saved Eduard's life in that battle rather well.

Now, you have just admitted that you are a Georgian, so you lied in your initial posts above.

Chechens had some role in that conflict, but as you must be very well aware, they are fighting wherever they can - Afganistan, Iraq, Somalia, Palestine, etc. They are fighters by nature and are also under great influence of radical islamic beliefs.

Stalin - Georgian by nationality - is the one to be blamed for that whole conflict. He separated Osseita into South and North and gave South to Georgia even though Ossetia had always been unified under Russia.

The thing about Chechens is actually true. In during the existance of Soviet Union, Chechens were not respected by other people living in the Soviet Union since they were so violent and aggresive.

What is abstract about an occupying army from Russia that has the aim of taking over all of Georgia so that the Kremlin can have control of the pipeline from Baku?

There is no genocide. The hoodlum that was willing to be Russia's puppet dictator in South Ossetia is the one who made sure that South Ossetian people would be killed. That blood is on his hands.

Russians have so much control over oil and other natural resources, that it would be just stupid for them to lose tens of thousands of its people to try to gain control over Georgia for that one pipe.

Russia is protecting its citizens to show that it cares about its people (normal humanitarian obligation of any state); it wants to show that it is not a week country (both to its citizens and the whole world); it wants to end this dangerous status-quo in the region that geopodizes its security (any big nation would do the same); it supports the desire of divided Ossetian people to unite (taking into account that majority of Ossetians live in Russia and are Russians by citizenship, culture and mentality.)

Georgia wants to get back the territory it was given by Gergian tirant Stalin (Djugashvili) 80 years ago.

South Ossetia does not want to be with Georgia. South Ossetian Freedom Fighters already had a bloody war with Georgia 15 years ago, lost many people but defended their right to chose how to live. South Ossetian people had two referendums and supported freedom from Georgia.

Guys

Russia is not protecting its citizens, or the oil or its reoputation. It is protecting itself.

NATO's goal after expanding into all of western Europe and allowing the US to install an ABM system in Poland/Chek republic wants to include Georgia into its membership and eventually install an ABM system there. Only an idiot would believe Bush's assertion that the ABM system was to defend Europe from Iran; the idea is so stupid, that only Bush could thin of it as an excuse. The real reason for the ABM systems, which are now in Japan, India and around Russia, is to neutralize Russia's ICBM force. This is necessary for when the time is ripe, the US will have the power to bomb Russia, like it has done everywhere and take over their oil and natural resources.

The question I always posed to myself was: at which point would Russia draw the land in the sand and say this is how far you go Mr US. I thought they would bomb the ABM site right after it was finished. What's happening now, makes more sense. Use Ossetia as an excuse, invade Georgia and prevent an ABM system in their backyard.

This whole thing was started when Bush decided to include eastern Europe into NATO and install an ABM system in europe.

Would the US do the same if an ABM system was to be installed in Venezuela?

No, Russia is the war-mongering nation. Russia invaded South Ossetia, and created this puppet "rebel leader". There were no rebels in South Ossetia before the FSB made one - after the invasion. What were the Ossetians supposed to do against heavily armed troops and tanks?

Ask yourself why all those children died in the school at Beslan while the Russian army rolled south and there was a full-on shooting war with the Georgian army when the two sides met at Tskhinvali?

Of course Russia called for renouncing the use of force. Russia knows that with the USA as backer, if we sign up for that, we will enforce it. That will mean that Russia can roll its own army in and take over anything it wants. Russia never pays attention to those agreements. Using other nations honesty as a weapon is a normal part of Russian strategy.

One of the extreme examples of how Russia uses other nations honesty as a weapon is the biological weapons treaty. A huge biological weapons complex was built, with the ability to deliver devastating payloads by missile.

Russia lies. Always. Remember this. And Russian nationalists repeat those lies.

John, all politicians lie, not only Russians. Georgians, American, European, Chinease, Japanease, they all lie, this is their work. It's funny how you proclaim Russia to be an evil state, same as many non-Americans consider US to be an evil state. Russia chases its interests, Georgia chases its own, other countries do the same.

But I have not read or heard of Osetins or Abkhazi who want back under Georgia ruling, sorry. I only heard this from Georgians. If you have a resource on the net where I can read Osetins or Abkhazi for uniting with Georgia, please give us a link.

Also there is not humanitarian catastrophy in those regions, they keep pretty pieceful life and have some developing economy. Abkhazi started building resorts (with Georgia called illegal as it's Georgian land, so funny again).

Russia is doing its politics, Georgia is doing its own. The question is should Abkhazia or South Osetia be allowed to have their choice?

Choice? And how did either one have a choice with Russian troops? Who can speak in South Ossetia with the FSB, Russian army, and the puppet dictator thug running things?

I know those people. They want peace and quiet. They are not big militants, which is why Russia's efforts to create an insurgency there to attack the rest of Georgia has failed.

You know full well, Alexander, what the situation is. Those people have no choice.

Ossetians and Abhazians showed their choice when they fought against Georgia 15 years ago. They had several referendums and decided to be without Georgia.

How would US react if thousands of its citizens were killed within 24 hours few miles behind Mexican border?

You don't know Americans very well. :-) You haven't read our newspapers much, have you? :-)
We would first ask who they were and what were they doing there? If they were sent by the American government, we would say they got what was coming to them.

If hospitals with their doctors are under fire?

Well, this happens regularly, right now, and Americans don't care much if it's outside our borders. We would pull them out is what we would do.

If their peacekeepers are executed?

Happens all the time. We would pull them out. But, it is also important to say that we would not be lying and calling them peacekeepers when we sent them as an invasion force. We just call things what they are. The American people would call for the invasion force to return home is what would happen.

Western media have not addressed Georgian aggression but was eager to highlight Russian move to protect Russian citizens within South Osetia (without move into Georgia).

So, what are those "Russian citizens" doing in South Ossetia in the first place? South Ossetia is a Georgian province.

I suppose that if you are happy to have tanks in South Ossetia to "protect" Russians there, then you should be equally happy to have Georgian tanks in Moscow to protect Georgian interests there? How about if the USA sends an invasion force into Chechnya and sends a few Americans there? If Russia counter-attacks, we could claim we are just "protecting our people." Right?

John, please don't call yourself American in this blog as you're Georgian in this particular case. You said it "We just call things what they are", so stick to it please.

You keep thinking I am Georgian. I am no more Georgian than you are. Probably less. Do you know what a pen name is? I just happened to pick this one.

However you are quite clearly Russian.

>>>>> >>>>> How would US react if thousands of its citizens were killed within 24 hours few miles behind Mexican border?
>>>> You don't know Americans very well. :-) You haven't read our newspapers much, have you? :-) We would first ask who they were and what were they doing there? If they were sent by the American government, we would say they got what was coming to them.

John Toradze mentioned that I do not know Americans - it's ok - and I am proud that Russian president said these words : "In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located".

Shame on the country that uses Olimic games to start overhight offence killing thousand of people - including women and childred in hospital - that live in the same country.

>>> they got what was coming to them
Sharon Stone used similar retoric not while ago - now she can not visit Olimic Games.

I know, "Dr. Strok" that Georgians are supposed to be upset that the dicator the FSB selected to rule them was killed. Georgians fought a civil war to get rid of their last dictator.

It is Russia that is working on becoming an international pariah state- again.

I am afraid that Georgians just go from one dictator to another. Stalin, Gamsakhurdia, Shevarnadze, Saakashvili. ... who is going to be the next?
I still think that most of people around the world despite political propaganda can differentiate between right and wrong. Consequently, they will say: Georgia is a pariah!

It is totally manufactured by Russia. Russia rolled it's troops in under the PR cover of the Beslan massacre (more innocent blood on the hands of Russia's "intelligence service") 4 years ago. The Georgian army was taken by surprise, and by the time they were able to deploy, they could only meet Russia's invasion at Tskhinvali. That is where the line of truce has remained, with negotiations attempted to get it back.

This "rebel leader" is no more legitimate than any other puppet of the regime. He is just a local hoodlum who is taking advantage of the situation. He cares for nothing but his own power, and to maintain his power that was granted to him by the FSB, he is making sure that his own civilians get killed.

Thank you.

Wateva, John Toradze is Georgian, his comments are biased. The conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia is mainly nationalistic. There were a couple of wars in Georgia (with South Ossetia and Abkhazia), since then this conflic is dragging. I neigher deny nor admit the role of Russia, but the main idea - this is an ethnic conflict, same as was between Armenia and Azerbaidzhan.

No, it is not Sasha, and I am not Georgian. It is totally created by Russia to serve Russia's interests. That is all. There is no similarity at all between this conflict and the Armenia/Azeri conflict. None.

It is geographical and nationalistic. Ossetians were divided (like Koreans, for instance) by Georgian Stalin and South was attached to Georgia. Now Ossetians want to unite, but Georgia used major force for the second time to try to keep them in.

Yeah the hate America first gang just can't wait for an opportunity to knee jerk and slogan shout. They don't need to know the details of a situaton, just blame Bush.

Guys, don't demonize KGB. It is just same as CIA in US. Those organizations are not growing as mushrooms, someone creates them. And they are normally created by politicians to take care of national security. CIA fixed many revolutions, rebellions and conflicts for the sake of US security. KGB did pretty much the same.

I loughed when Hillary said "Putin has no soul, as he's former KGB". National security agencies are "children" of political regime, so their "parent" (i.e. politicians, like Hillary) should have no more soul than KGB or CIA.

No, the KGB is not at all the same as the CIA. You should read the Mitrokhin Archive. It is available in print as, The Sword and The Shield. It is online at: http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=25982993

The two organizations could not be more different.

Dear Ken:
You may trust or not trust to Putin, Medvedev and etc. But you should not close your eyes that it is Georgia that attacked Russian peacekeepers in the region that were stationed their according to international agreements and the UN mandate. It was Georgia that attacked sleeping city and almost completely destroyed it from tanks, heavy artillery and bombs. It is Georgia that commits attrocities on the soil of South Ossetia. Open your eyes, Ken.

How about Russia's land grab at the North Pole last August. Planting their flag and claiming the crude oil and natural resources, as Russia's. see http://www.countercurrents.orgt/penketh030807.htm

Wait until we start pumping oil from ANWR. China is already drilling for crude oil between Cuba and the USA.

The Cuban Missile Crises was just a dry run. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself, but to the uninformed this is all new. Ha! Ha!

Russia is claiming that the Lomonosov ridge is an extension of the Eurasian (Russian) mainland, and as a consequence they would be able to claim soverignty under the UN Law of The Sea. Nothing illegal or unwarranted about their claims.

BTW Australia expanded its mairtime borders recently via the same law.