Students learn hard lesson in school budgets

In California those of us who have been fighting against illegal immigration all our lives don't care to have our pocketbooks raided to pay to try to educate a bunch of people when half of them drop out anyways. Thank goodness they can't raise taxes here with only a majority vote.

Yes, we shouldn't give money to crappy schools because the people that go to crappy schools don't get decent educations and give up 'cause it's a waste of their time.

You're descended from immigrants. I bet if they were white, you wouldn't care near so much.

I descended from legal immigrants.

I didn't say we shouldn't give them money. I said we shouldn't give them more money.

I take that back: if all the people who try to stand in the way of controlling immigration want to want to give them more money, THEY can pay for it!

Here are some facts in CA - in the past 6 years the state has 75,000 less students now than before however in the past 6 years the school budget has INCREASED by 11 BILLION dollars. The teachers are crying because their propaganda is called "budget cuts". when in all reality they are getting another budget increase, just not the normal percantage of previous years. What's wrong with this picture? The legislature wants to increase our taxes even more just to feed this monster. I agree with lorent, they don't care to learn but they want our money to live for free.

Another story on the trillions of dollars spent on the war on homeowners, otherwise called government schools. what a template, problem, government throws money at it, problem gets worse, throw more money, problem gets even worse, throw even more money at it, all the while, students perform worse than their parents did. You had your shot government, and you blew it.

Just more money the states will add to the Poor People's debt, with NO WAY to pay!

It's all my fault, I'm sorry.

I, not our "mighty" leader, am totally at fault.

Little Bushie says we don't have any problems here in the USA (you can get a transcript of it from the Olympics web sites; interview with Bob Costas).

So, you see, someone needs to stand up for US Middle Class POOR!

No problems in the USA? Kinda like no gays in Iran, I guess...

We have plenty of money, and it is going to America's voted priorities: The Iraq War and tax cuts for the rich.
The Republican Party called us all unpatriotic if we questioned their thinking. We got what we voted for: failure. To to vote against the perpetrators.

Pretty amazing.

Taxpayers have been screaming for months for relief at the pump, demanding that the govt allow us to drill for our own oil, what do we get, politicians take a 5 week paid vacation.

As soon as a govt program feels the squeeze we gotta have immediate relief, save the program, higher taxes, and immediate govt action happens. Screw that! Let the govt try to do with a little less for a change.

I can't imagine that if the kids miss a month or two of school that they'll be harmed all that much, most of them can't even read by the time they leave high school anyway, those that go that far, and 33% don't.

How about cutting back on the free lunch program? I drive by several high schools everyday and see the parking lot is full of student cars, if they can afford to buy their kid a car, put gas in the tank then they can afford to pack 'em a lunch.

I am a recent layoff from a California school district due to budget cuts. It is not propaganda. I say that without anger at the district. The money isn't there. I will not list all of the reasons and will not argue points that are filled with misinformation (unless you want me too, and believe me, I have the information first-hand). Except maybe the fee lunch comment. Students qualify for Federal free lunch based on the family's income. I'm sure it get manipulated a bit but not so much that every car driving student is getting free lunch. And, like I said, it is a Federal program so it doesn't hurt the individual school districts' bottom line. It actually helps.

If you want to blame illegal immigration or some political party or whatever, go ahead. If you let the state of this nation's public school systems deteriorate and crumble, go ahead. But, DO NOT complain when this country is getting its butt kicked by smaller, poorer nations because their future generations are better educated and better prepared to achieve greatness on a global level.

No Child Left Behind is a joke. I know. I helped administrate it and it is so flawed that it is obvious even to an eighth grader that it was nothing but a political soundbite. Well, obvious to an eighth grader from a country that places a high priority on public education. Hold teachers accountable? Amen. But do so by paying them their value to society. You love it when your sports team trades for a guy making $10 million a year or more but balk at paying a teacher a livable wage.

If we continue to place a low priority on public education, we better place a higher one on building new prisons. No, that is not hyperbole. It is a simple prediction.

I for one am OUTRAGED by this article. It's not just California either. We should ALL be up-in-arms protesting as loudly as possible. We've got the money to fund all this stupid construction and gentrification going on and to fund a war, but our school systems are going to the dogs, but yet, America doesn't have any problems. Luckily for me, my son finished school (I sent him to private school because I was NOT sending him to a NYC public school). It was very hard on me affording his tuition, but I was DETERMINED that my son would have a half-way decent chance of getting ahead in life.

For those people who commented on the free lunch program, some of those kids need and I mean REALLY need it. For some of them, it's the only meal they get that's nutritious.

I agree with HMike's comment - we'll pay a freakin athlete millions of dollars a year to play a sport but our schools are going to hell. Where are our priorities? I heard someone say that America's religion is money. I really believe it now.

Americans have gotten to the point where the attitude is "ME". No one else matters unless it affects "ME".
If there are illegals immigrants by the millions, it does not matter until it affects "ME".
I go the grocery store, and the prices are higher, but "ME" is doing OK, so it does not matter.
"Me" must be left alone to enjoy the things in "ME"ville.
If the Taxes get raised because more people are using the social services, well It is not a "ME" concern.
If the roads are deteriorating faster than the designers planned because the population increase results in more use, it really does not affect "ME".
When that stray bullet just misses "ME" I don't notice, because I am in a "ME" continuum.

If the State, county, City has to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to keep up with the NEVER ENDING requirement of illegal immigrant kids coming into our public school system, well, as long as I don't have kids who go to that school it does not affect "ME".

President Bush in accordance with his strategy of incorporating Mexico and Canada into our lives despite our objections, passes a stupid law that says; EVERY KID MUST BE PUSHED THROUGH THE SYSTEM. (No child Left Behind Act) Well that doesn't affect "ME"

Class sizes must be increased to 30 students per teacher, but that does not affect "ME"
Teachers must be bilingual to cope with the increase in non English speaking students. But that does not affect "ME"
Your neighbor's kids came home with a fractured arm because he would not surrender his lunch to a gang member, that does not affect "ME"

Two Streets over the 13 year old daughter of you best buddy was raped in her own home, you feel bad, but it wasn't you, so it does not bother the "ME"

Houses in your neighborhood have been robbed and vandalized. One of them 2 times in a week. But not yours, so it is not really your problem. "ME" is safe.

The bars and locks on your houses make the place look like a prison town, but if you use metal art, it doesn't look so bad, just as long as it is not "ME"

The Governator reduces the pay of Government workers due to budget shortfalls throughout the state.
OH MY GOD!!!! That affects "ME"

How in the world did that happen? Why is the "ME" world being messed with? Who is responsible?

Now my electric bill is too high.
I can no longer get an appointment at the doctor, and the emergency rooms are full of Mexican immigrants.
Every sign, booklet, telephone menu, bank, and other public service is either written in both Spanish or English, or just Spanish…

Get it now?
If not, the keep being "ME".

If we = taxpayers then...

"We" don't pay ball players a dime. The owners do... and those team generate huge amounts of tax revenue for the cities they play in.

"We" do however pay teachers salaries. Why can't we insist on retaining quality teachers to teach our children. The teacher's union makes it impossible to fire poor teachers.

Poor families + poor teachers = poor education (no matter how much $$$ we throw at it)

Don't forget that the State of Florida is ranked 50th in student funding. With Amendment 1 giving the "Big Box" home owners a larger tax break. PLUS, the huge downturn in the housing creating the massive forclosure issue - Florida ranks third in the nation. So, right now, Florida isn't making money, it's losing money. Good teachers are leaving the state and profession to find better paying or more secure jobs.

Have to agree that the Miami situation has been out of hand for a very long time. Funding at almost every level simply slips through these politicans hands. Just wondering how funding a new Stadium for the Marlins is going to help the shrinking municipal budgets all over the greater Dade / Broward county area. They're ( the politicians) not worried about school budgets unless it impacts their re- electability. Just cut someone else's salary (teacher's) to pay for their decades of mismangement.There is probably a ton of money that could be saved and re budgeted to the education sytem by disallowing what seem to be thousands of police cars and other types of emergency vehicles that are taken home each day all over South Florida at tax payer expense. Many of us have to pay out own way for gasoline and auto insurances. This is really a area that has been abused for a long time. Not to worry the politicians have already justified it by allowing any agency to issue citations outside their jurisdictions. They'll never make role call on time now and will be in court more often dropping the hammer on Joe citizen that keeps paying their bills.

"We can pay a ball player millions of dollars and teachers zilch, not fair to them or the children"

That's because a ballplayer can entertain MILLIONS of sports fans every season.

Have you ever seen a reading teacher teach MILLIONS of students to read in one year? I haven't.

Suppose a teacher makes $60k per year in salary+benefits (I know it varies by region), and teaches a class of 30 students. The teacher is getting paid TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS per student per year!

If a professional athlete entertains six million fans in one season and gets paid $6 million, he's only getting paid ONE DOLLAR per sports fan per year!

$2,000 > $1
so I'd say we value teaching quite a bit more than sports in our society.

Let's get real here. No one should be comparing professional athletes to teachers and comparing salaries. The fact is, teachers are underpaid. Carl W, I don't know where you live where teachers get paid $60K a year, but the average pay in Texas is around $30k, not to mention the after-school time put in by teachers and out of pocket money spent to make sure supplies are adequate. The pay is not even enough to pay back college loans the teachers took out to get certified. If these teachers didn't have a passion for teaching children and helping to create better opportunities for future generations, they could find something else to do. But for now, they will stick to what they love to do and maybe one day they will be compensated for their hard work.

Carl W - What the h--- are you talking about? Do you have children? If so, do you value their education? Or do you want them to spend the rest of their days worshipping "professional athletes?" Oh, that's right, it will only cost them $1/yr!

Carl,

Where exactly do you think that teachers are making $60k? I've been teaching 4 years and make about $30k. Those that DO make $60k most likely work in locations where the cost of living is a lot higher, where that $60k still doesn't go very far.

And what about those teachers that see upwards of 200 kids a year?

Hate to tell you but the salary schedule in the district I work in tops out at 110 K. With coaching stipends and retirement incentives some of our teachers make over 135 K. Our student body is mostly poor and minority but we have a good industrial tax base. The money allows us to: attract and keep good teachers, run fully funded programs for disadvantaged students, and adopt new programs based on best practices and not on lowest price. In our district the administration and faculty work together (I know this is about at rare as teachers being paid well) to solve problems. Since we are paid like professionals we act like professionals - teachers are expected by their colleagues to either arrive early and stay late. We regularly undergo additional teacher training and are encouraged to further our educations. The job we do for our students is too important to give only minimal effort. Our average student enters high school at a sixth grade level, by the time they graduate they are within one semester of their peers in other schools. Money does not solve all educational problems but money spent wisely can create a school where students are given the attention and time to make great progress.

Teachers are always crying that they don't make enough. I have an idea, why don't you go out and try to make it in the private sector where your compensation is measured by results. If I had a 33% failure rate I wouldn't have a job.

In the story they mentioned cuts to transportation, supplies, teachers, janitors and maintenance staff. No where did I see mention of cutting the salaries and benefits of school adminstrators. They make huge salaries and for what? They are in the education business but aren't even educated enough to work within a budget. The only thing they seem to be good at is begging for more money every year.

I am the head of a household and I have to live within a budget every day of my life. When things run low I don't have the luxury of taxing someone else to make ends meet.

So here's a novel idea. Cut the administration budget. I don't know of an adminstrator that teachs any students anyways. Then hire lower wage administrators that have demonstrated an ability to work with what they are given.

Plenty of money goes to the system it just never reaches the children.

By the way lilegend, show me a teacher that makes zilch, or a school administrator that makes zilch, or a school budget that is zilch.

Everyone likes to sit around and worry about what someone else makes.

How come it's always "professional ball players make...", but no one ever says "trial lawyers (like John Edwards) make millions, but our teachers make ZILCH!

Funny how that theme repeats itself. In Orlando instead of helping the schools were gonna build a new arena and revamp our antiquated stadium. We don't use the stadium for but 4 bowls a year and the monster trucks while teachers get laid off and students get the shaft. Do the same highways in your city keep getting rebuilt every couple of years??? Got to keep their construction and engineer buddies rich. And for some dumb reason they get re elected. GO FIGURE!!

But ccales, this isn't the same as personal financing. What if you have 10 million dollars worth of expenses to pay, but only receive 3 million to pay them. Yes, you can prioritize and scrimp, but eventually there are going to be short comings. You aren't going to be able to reach it. In a regular job, maybe you could work longer hours, or find some alternative method of income, but for the education system, they only receive what the state gives them. Teachers don't make huge salaries, neither do administrators, although I do agree we can always afford to cut administrator's pay, and that goes for just about any field of work.

In case you didn't notice, the whole article is about schools working within their budget, and the main point is that the expenses are greater then the amount allotted.

Muticere, I read the story and I agree that the expenses are greater than the amount allotted. I was responding to the post by lilegend, not the story as a whole.

I disagree on the main point of the story. The main point seemed to be how the children are going to suffer because the expenses are greater than the allotted amount.

I wish I lived in a world where I could just go around and rack up expenses without worrying about how much money I have. That seems to be how government operates all the time. I'm not just talking about schools, but all levels of government.

Most school administrators used to be teachers, not to mention that they have college degrees. When I was a child, I was always told that a degree meant everything if you wanted to get ahead in life and have a good career. Now, it seems like a Masters degree isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Someone made a really good point about we always zero in on what athletes earn, but no one says anything about trial lawyers. Hell, even regular lawyers make outstanding salaries. I worked with one attorney who charged something like $200 an hour just to TALK to him. Why is what a lawyer does more valuable than what a teacher does? And what the hell are we telling future generations about education? As much money as it costs to go to a decent college nowadays, it's like why waste the money.

You know what? Why doesn't everyone with an answer here go to a School Board meeting and ask for a copy of the district budget? They'll give it to you (they have to) and then come back with ideas.

Guys like Carl do not get it. I wasn't referring to ballplayers salaries as though they were paid by taxpayers (no, just the houses they play in usually are). My point was it is amazing to me (and I love sports) that we think it is great to pay one guy millions to hit a ball or play music or act in a movie but we balk at paying teachers. Priorities.

If our schools are failing, it has long-term tragic effects on our country. Go ahead and blame whomever you want, teachers' unions are absolutely not blameless. But, the bottom line is if we do not get involved to fix this, well... In 10 years we will be screaming about how it is too broken to fix and wishing we acted earlier. Just like we are now with dependence on fossil fuels.

Oh stop it already. We have dumped trillions into government schools, that have produced inferior students over the last decades. Government involvement looks like this: problem, add money, problem gets worse, add more money, problem gets even worse, add even more money....and on and on...

Maybe this country is attempting to see these wars through to an honorable and victorious conclusion to insure that all the American kids can continue to get an education. Times are tough and may well get tougher. We all have to sacrifice. Thank God we still have books...put down the Ipods and cell phones, kids, and try teaching yourselves something by reading...that is if you've been taught to read in school.

We can print money all day long. There's no gold standard anymore.

Did your district cut Economics from its curriculum, by any chance?
We don't increase the money supply by printing currency. Currency is actually a small percentage of the money supply.
It is done by increasing demand deposits (checking accounts, basically), through lowering interest rates, lowering reserve requirements, govt spending, the Fed buying municipal bonds, etc--or through lowering taxes.

What is terrible is the rock/hard place the school districts are in regarding tutoring and No Child Left Behind. NCLB MANDATES that a school have remediation. Of course, the money it takes to provide it (keeping the building open, energy costs, extra buses, security, teachers) isn't factored in.

NO MORE UNFUNDED MANDATES would be a great place to start. Our district cut our supply budgets and took $1000 directly from THOSE cut budgets to pay for copy overages. Yes, copies. Now, my dept is allowing about $150 per teacher for supplies--you know, chalk, paper, transparancies, maps--- for the entire year. I have just over 150 students. I'm not a math genius, but ONE DOLLAR per kid for the year isn't enough.

NCLB is a horrible thing.

My tongue was planted firmly in cheek with the printing remark, though there was the implication that the powers-that-be have a pretty strong sway on the economy.

Thanks for the insight.

You're so right, Jim!

My father just retired from a school system in which they would NEVER, EVER show that they had extra money. They would waste it however they saw fit!

They would throw perfectly good things away, right into a dumpster, and not even let non-profit groups have access to any of the "TRASH". Such "trash" as 80 year old OAK teacher's desks and chairs, mohogany book cases, year old Air Conditioners [the list goes on and on] would end up in the landfill if it not for "Garbage Pickers" like my Dad. Who would pull a desk from the dumpster, clean it and sell them for $800 each! Know what the schools replaced these with? JUNK Staples desks made of flimsy sheet metal. These new "Better" supplies are lucky to last 3 years and the school can "Wisely" spend more extra cash whne they decide to.

SMART things from supposed SMART people, right?!

Alot of state dept's do the same..if they have money left over the budget for the following year is reduced by that amount. and most schools run a surplus your just not looking at the right places for that information.

A lot of government organizations do that. At the end of the year, orders come down to "figure out something to spend it on" I tried to fight this when I was involved. I was shot down.

CYAN60

You are oblivious. If there are 10% of the countries schools returning the money for next year, that would be A LOT! If they Showed a surplus, the town council would say that they got too much money last year and reduce the amount (at least by that percentage of overage) the next time it is voted on!

THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN! I have proof of this in my town!

They are NOT that honest!

Did you read what I wrote at all? It was NOT fictitious, they would rather pay to throw good/great things away than to even try to give it someone needy or sell the items to gain some of the funding for the New "Better" equipment. IF they held an auction, that would cost money to hold and then the town would have a surplus again! That is "Bad" for the school budget!

There is an article about education, and you think and post about the war. It seems you people wake up in the morning and think about how the war is the source of all the problems. It is like a psychosis or something. How about discussing EDUCATION in a forum about education!!

Because the war is draining the extra money to combat these problems at the local level, that's how government should work not fighting shoeless car bombers. You repugs make me sick with your simple minded approaches to the problems your boy has created. I'm talking about Shrub!!!!!!!!!! It's all tied in together. The education of our nation's children should be priority number ONE, but depending upon where you live and what kind of social and economic background you come from you may and more than likely will get short changed. That's the real discussion no one wants to talk about. The inequalities between rich and poor kids in these separate but equal districts. That's why we are in such a crises from a educational standpoint and also an economic one also. Property taxes should only be a portion of that districts income more should come from the state budgets in a more equal way and the other taxes that should be collected on a even basis so that all children of this nation can get a quality education not just the ones in the rich enclaves of America.

What extra money? The is no EXTRA money! It is all being borrowed. If we stopped spending on the war, we shouldn't keep borrowing to pay the bills.

Yea - depending on your background. Like if you, your parents, or your grandparents sneaked across the border and suppressed wages of Americans here legally.

I think in California, the money is uniform across the state. While it may seem "fair" for it to be spread evenly, when your state is swamped with people you don't want there, you start wondering why you have to pay for everybody else's kid.

let's see.... CA has the fifth largest economy (no... NOT in the U.S.) in the WORLD and the states like Tennessee who can't bus the kids to school are supposed to say, "yep, we should just junk the idea of teaching our kids anything, because Californians are having a struggle."

The article shows how the United States has reached a state of disaster in yet ANOTHER area.

I'm sure if you ask Cheney, his response would be "So?" His brain would be operating on the fact that there is no more NEED for Americans in the working world so why educate? I mean, we can cull from the Indians who are cheaper, still cheaper are the Chinese workers! Better yet, CREATE A NEW WAR somewhere else with falste documents, cuz NO child needs an education to join up in the services and this way Cheney stays immortally a billionaire/trillionaire by charging for contracting work.

Yes it's got to do with the war, yes it's got to do with our society values, athletes included, and yes it's got to do with the mortgage mess, all the while the CEO's of those self-same banking industries are being "covered" for their debts (out of YOUR TAXES people!) but god FORBID we give tax money back for saving the house or for paying for your children to go to school or any of that. It has to do with No Child Left Behind, it has to do with corrupt board members refusing to spend the money where it is honestly needed and creating fake needs, it has to do with a government that doesn't reward SAVINGS in budgets, it has to do with SO MANY THINGS. But the biggest person it has to do with is YOU. I'm VERY involved in the school district meetings, in city board meetings, it's our responsibility to be informed.

Used to be leaflets and pamphlets back in the 1700's now it's up to US to get involved. You want changes, then GET OUT THERE and start spreading the word, start CHANGING your city's habits! Tell your representatives what you don't like, by e-mail no less! It's as simple as filing an opinion on this site. Change will NOT happen until the government understands how it impacts the people they are representing. If you do nothing, notthing will change.

LOL!

If ONLY!

The larger the district, historically, the WORSE they are. Consolidation is DOOM.

I'd like to know where the Republicans buy their drugs or do you get them for free every time you try to blame the liberals. Does the GOP send you another package? You all want something for nothing. Talk about selfish individuals. Never willing to pay a Tax for anything to improve society as a whole. It's just always about ME,ME,ME. I suppose when you retire you will Pass on Social Security and Medicare because they were liberal in nature. Just fend for yourself that is the Conservative way isn't it? No, I don't think you will pass on that cash. A GOP hypocrite then, nothing new there.

Sounds like myyouth thinks that the only way to improve society is through government. I suppose the liberal mantra would be MORE,MORE,MORE. But it's my wallet you're so quick to pick. Liberals must read a different constitution than I do. Please point out where it says that someone else has a right to the fruits of my labor. If all the money that was taken from me to support someone else was given back to me, I would retire well. And I wouldn't need your government program.

You are right ccales! I don't want any more "PROGRAMS". How many government Programs can you think of that are a total waste of time and money............... Public education is loaded with worthless programs. It's a cheap fix (government grants, hire a program director, an assistant, etc. ...) that can not continue to be funded so we let it drive it self in the ground. Then we need a grant writer, then we need matching funds.... I could go on and on. What really irritates me is that very little of these funds directly go to help the students. Don't even get me started on Special Education, English as a second language, school breakfast&lunch program....There is no reason why a parent can't get their lazy butt out of bed and pour milk on a bowl of cereal. And I don't want to hear how some of those kids are starving. Those students are probably with the teacher more than they are with their parents. Those teachers know who is being negledted and starved and by law they are reqired to report this.

My teachers are very well paid, work 9 months out of the year with 3 weeks of vacation during the year. They have a better retirement system. Besides, they chose that profession, they knew what they were getting into. There is extra pay if you want to coach, take tickets at a sporting event, after school study programs, which I have volunteered to do because I enjoy and think I have something to offer the students. The teachers would never do it with out being paid.

I have never seen buses pick up kids at less than 2 miles, and I am oooooold. We walked even in kindergarten.

You have to walk your 8yr-old, and get a couple of other kids to walk together, so you can personally see any potential traffic dangers. Once is all you need. Then they have to meet together and walk home. The parents need to be united in this, and it will be fine.

Maybe their parents should walk with them. They might need the exercise.

Sherri,

I feel for you, granite desktops. Amazing.

Yea, it is very important. That is why we shouldn't be swamping our schools with a bunch of kids that don't give rat's ass. If they weren't here, we would have a far smaller problem!

So it is all entwined. If you think unrestricted immigration doesn't have consequences, you are wrong!

Why don't the kids care? Could it have something to do with how much the schools suck? Given that most of the kids that don't care are lower class, do you think it may have something to do with the people they see that went to school, bust ass at their crap job, and die poor? You know, socioeconomic issues?

If you think the immigration concern is anything more than racist propaganda put forth by people that profit off of the current situation, you have bought their hype.

The kids don't care because their neighborhoods and communities and people in them are dysfunctional, not because the schools are doing anything wrong.

If you think immigration is ok, you pay to fix the problems it causes. Keep your stealing hands out of my pocket.

Sorry to derail.

Isn't it possible that the dysfunction of these communities may be tied into years of subpar education? I don't get why this is so difficult to understand; denying people a decent education because they've been denied a decent education makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm so tired of immigration being labeled as the "major issue" to school budget problems. Lorent if you want to be so damn technical about it, it is more than just the illegal offspring who as you say don't give a rat ass. Everyday kids from every other race choose to skip class, not do their homework, or just stop going to school all together, by your way of thinking does that then give me the right to say, "to hell with the white or black kids who don't give a damn because all they will do is end up doing drugs or getting pregnant." Pretty naive and stereotypical if you ask me. Nobody has the right to label a whole group because of the bad apples that we all have in our respective races. I grew up in one of these California "dysfunctional" communities (and i am what you would call a Hispanic minority who descended from parents who were once illegals) and let me tell you first of all i am damn proud of my background. All through my public school days i saw my parents bust their butts, buy a house (and pay taxes) to give me all the materials i needed to excel in my classes and in life. I attended honors classes and graduated with scholarships that I earned because of my good grades and awesome test scores. I served in the military and now work as a civilian contractor supporting the military while going to school and doing pretty good for myself. Many of my classmates went to schools such as UCLA, UC Santa Barbara, USC, and one even earned a full scholarship to Westpoint. Now my sisters are also getting good grades being sent invites for early college participation programs 2 years before they graduate. You say that people like me (those who support that every child be given the fair chance to better themselves in hopes of making the future brighter) should pay for the expenses and I fully agree, I do not see it as my money being stolen, I take the positive road and am fully willing to help those who one day I will have to rely on to run this country, everyone from the mechanic who tunes up my car to the phone repair guy who allows me to stay in contact with friends and family, to the military personnel that fight for my freedom and the politicians who tell them what to do. Because as much as many of us hate to admit that we are getting older we have to accept the fact that the younger generations (all races included) are the ones who when we phase out will be taking over, so why not want to have an educated bunch do it? By the way Lorent you posted earlier that you descended from illegals also so why so much hostility towards them. What if someone had whined and complained about paying for your education and not giving you chance to succeed, why so negative about giving something back and giving someone else a shot at a good life?

cavwife: 100%

I said I descend from legal immigrants. At least that is what I intended to say. If I said typed something else, I made a boo boo.

Congrats to you if you bucked the trend. I know plenty of people that have. My best customer is Latino. I've had Latino girlfriends - man were some of them hot!! I have plenty of Latino friends. I have even known a few illegals. I even drove on across the border once! (accidentally, thought he was documented, otherwise what was he going to TJ with us for?) Your whole group isn't "bad apples", only about half are.

But it is a major issue in the school budget problem and a lot of problems. We have over-immigration. Immigration, at the proper rate is a good thing. But packing people like sardines into communities when the kids are graduating at a 50% rate is STUPID.

If you want to have a similar perspective on dysfunctional white or black kids, go right ahead. But I don't think they are contributing to over crowding. The black kids are under attack and being forced out. I feel sorry for them. I am all for extra effort in black communities. I am not even opposed to spending more in Latino communities IF illegal immigration is brought to a halt and sensible limits are imposed on legal immigration. What I won't do is support throwing money at a problem that illegal immigration has created.

If you want to pay more, nobody is stopping you. Get a group together with all the people of similar positions. Contribute to a fund, and send it where you want. Just don't try to steal it from me.

lorent: That is racist garbage. Stop listening to white people that profit off of the current situation about race relations. Frankly, a person that lives the experience knows more than a person that's heard stuff from politicians and pundits.

And it's nice to see how the only thing you have to say about your Latina (Latino is a guy) girlfriends is that they're hot. No character or personality? Not intelligent? Not loving? They're just hot. That's great. Sexism is so awesome.

What is racist garbage? So what if they were hot? They were nice, too. I knew somebody would say something stupid about that. It's sexist to find a woman attractive? The point was that I live with and interact and work with and for Latinos all the time. I get along with them just fine. Came close to marrying one. I said my best customer, another small business owner is Latino. I said I have friends that are, too. So where is the racism?

I think you like to cry racism because you don't have anything else to say. You think by doing so you automatically win the arguement. YOU DON"T!

And I am born and raised in So. Cal.

Believe me, I AM LIVING IT!

This is stupid, I could type my fingers off and what it all comes down to will still be your opinion versus mine, and even though I may not agree with what you have to say you do in fact have a right to say it, gotta love freedom of speech right?
The whole point I'm trying to make is that a huge problem such as school budgets coming up millions of dollars short every year and the education system failing cannot be blamed on a single source. Overspending, underfunding, overcrowding, "the war on terror", and pretty much the economy going into the tank (lol no pun intended, although oil/fuel prices have added to this whole bag of mess) are only some of the things that are to blame. We cant just focus all of our energy and single out one problem and hope that by eliminating one that things will be ok, they may seem better but how long before one of the other problems becomes too much to handle and we just find ourselves in the same rut again. If you ask me though one of the major problems is that we as a country have become to relaxed with life, morals are low and greed is high. Education is not a high priority as it once was and with so many loopholes and shortcuts some really just say "why bother." To me it is sad to hear stories about those who went through school and graduated but then come to find out they cant even read. I mean really can somebody tell me how does that even happen? If the funding was there and the books were available but yet the student at 18 cant read then isn't that what we should really call a waste of money? Isn't that what should really make you feel like your money was stolen and wasted? The way the economy is faltering can only lead me to believe that funding issues will not be problems of the past anytime soon. Yes we need to find ways to become more cost efficient, find better energy sources to heat/cool the schools, maybe even have to learn to rely a little less on school provided lunches. As much as I hate to admit it help from the gov will more than likely be a long way coming. So the only other people we have left to rely on are ourselves it all has to start somewhere, personally if I am worried that my child is not getting the education i believe she deserves then I will make sure to take it into my own hands and read or even watch an educational program on tv with them. And if it has to come down to cutting bus routes then a program should be instituted by the parents to take turns walking or offer to dish out a couple dollars to the stay at home mom and hopefully they will be willing to pick up other kids for school too. My parents always taught me that where there's a will there's a way and if by chance you meet a parent who has no will do not take it out on the child, for it is not their fault that they were brought into this world.

It is certainly not the only problem. I don't know what the "biggest" problem is. There are a lot of them

I do know, though, that funding shortfalls in California are primarily because of many people feeling the same way about this that I do. The way I understand it, we have a law here that funding has to be uniform across the state. So many voters think, since we have had no help trying to keep immigration under control, that paying more money into the education system is just one more way for all the people who aren't supposed to be here to rip us off even more, so don't expect us to vote to get ripped off even more.

Ernst:

States are taking money from the lottery, without your knowledge, and using it for porkbelly projects.

In Florida once they started getting lottery money for education they cut all prior education funding and it did not do much. Once it got rolling it was bigger than the prior funding and they decided to change the law and divert whatever they wanted to. Thus, the lottery funding education fiasco just gave them a way to steal it away not as obviously

What the hell are you talking about?

Yea, a mile walk is what, 20 minutes? 40 minutes of exercise a day? Where are the forums about all the fat kids? Maybe every kid should be walking to school if all they are doing for exercise at home is Wii "sports"

The reason that schools provide meals is so that the children will be ABLE to learn better. (Studies have shown repeatedly that hungry children don't pay very much attention to getting an education). And walking to school several miles is not an option for everybody...especially people who live in rural areas...and not everybody in school is on a sports team. And of course home schooling is not an option for everyone.

What is a real option is finding out how to finance public schools in a better fashion. Obviously the property tax method not only creates disequity between school regions (in TX it is now illegal to spread the money around), but also in times of this type of fiscal crisis you end up with these kind of shortfalls. Does anybody have any real ideas to come up with to alleviate this crisis?

You can't possibly have had children or your FIRST thought would be KIDNAPPERS. Second would be if you live on a main thoroughfare, will my child be hit by an irresponsible driver and then left there by thousands more just driving by. Are you KIDDING ME?

Having BEEN the mother of a child who was kidnapped for a brief time, it was the most HORRIFYING experience in the world. I wish it on no one, and I would leave NO chance for that happening. Foolish FOOLISH FOOLISH.

YOU go for a 4 mile walk on the bad side of town (mine was on the good side) let me know how you come out of that.

I walked from downtown LA to Orange County one time. You should have seen the neighborhoods...

So maybe the government should pay for armed guards to pick the kids up at home and deliver them to the classroom.

I understand the concern, and if weather is bad, you need to have some other options. But you can't control everything. If you are so concerned, take them yourself. Don't expect somebody else to foot the bill.

Get them a bike. All kinds of kids rode bikes to school when I was growing up.

They might be in tough neighborhoods, but don't they live there, too? How can you live there without going outside now and then?

They also had schools in those neighborhoods that weren't halfway across the county before NCLB closed them down, rather than funding upgrades.

I'm blind. I can't drive my child to school. Nor should it be his fault that he has to go for miles across town. A bike gets them no faster out of the neighborhood. My child and I got out and went to activities. No, he didn't get to play outside in the neighborhood. Again, he was taken for a few days and it was traumatic enough that both of us had to go through over a year of counseling.

I didn't say armed guards, busing is the least a school community can provide, whether using the local city transportation or by school buses. It ensures that kids have a way to school.

Again, laurent, it's way obvious you don't have a child. I pay taxes, I work, I provide ALL of my child's care and needs. I deserve to have my taxes spent on a need for general families, NOT on needs for corporations, I'm already steaming mad that we bailed out countrywide, and Bear Stearns, when they were irresponsible risk takers. A parent who works hard should NOT have to worry that they are paying taxes that will LOSE them schools and busing.